Barby 41' vs 42'

[Vanman]

Besides the obvious fact that the Soviets are significantly stronger in 42' than in 41', what is the German players expectations and
experiences here? Are the objectives the same as in 41' or so unrealistic that its simply an effort to push the USSR back
to the Dnepr line and then hold from there rather than Poland? Is the factory line a distinct possibility? (Rostov-Kharkov-Kursk...)

An unscathed USSR in 43' in monstrous, so no need to even go there.

[Joseignacio]

IMO, in 42 unless one of the players is significantly more skillful or lucky than the other, the reasonable objective is, as you mention, to create a buffer further than Poland. Not only because the USSR is almost as strong as you, with the advantage od the winterised units, but also you have the USA coming.

[paulderynck]

A 1942 Barb with Manstein and a couple O-chits and good weather in SO42 can be quite successful. However if you don't break the Dnepr line, that is where it stagnates. It gets to the point that you can't even attack to gain local objectives because of the PM bonus for attacks in the Russian home country.

It helps greatly to have the Med closed (often this IS associated with a 42Barb) and have Italy with a strong Air Force. The Axis can then take advantage of an Italian Air action and a German Land action in the same way the US/CW does Naval/Lands.

[AlbertN]

I felt a major difference is also played by the use (or not) of Khaki in Flames units (as Germany would have 3 ENG units instead of 2).
That is something impacting heavily any river defence.

Indeed Italians can also send by '42 an amount of airplanes which are quite needed - and they can afford air actions since the Med is closed. The Germans have airplanes, but they are way too short of actions to use them AND keep their fighters up in range with the frontlines.

Mayhaps because my opponent was not excellent, but I never had big issues in Barbarossa '42.

[Dabrion]

"Baku or bust" is not doable against a '42 RU. Always go for a '41 Barb (or even a '40 winter Barb) if you can. The earlier you attack, the better your chances are to overpower RUs army by maneuvering.

Only reasonable cases for a '42 Barb is a Sea-Lion where you plough through Spain first for the Rock (not fruitful in general, rather cycle MAR and Paras for multiple shots).

[Jagdtiger14]

As Paul wrote, a '42 Barb is normally associated with closing the Med (Med strategy). A strong Axis Med front vs the USSR in Iraq or Persia will spread out Soviet assets. If USSR has not taken Persia (Iraq and Persia Axis aligned) there could be western and eastern Caspian fronts immediately and the chance to align Turkey. If Turkey is aligned Baku is in trouble.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

As Paul wrote, a '42 Barb is normally associated with closing the Med (Med strategy). A strong Axis Med front vs the USSR in Iraq or Persia will spread out Soviet assets. If USSR has not taken Persia (Iraq and Persia Axis aligned) there could be western and eastern Caspian fronts immediately and the chance to align Turkey. If Turkey is aligned Baku is in trouble.

That's an Axis dream. The USSR sitting around doing nothing, while the Euroaxis are slowly closing the Med. Not a good strategy for the Soviets at all, IMHO.

[Jagdtiger14]

Yea, I strung out the dream a bit too far. But even if USSR takes Persia (and Iraq?), they still need to defend and put some assets there. Probably just cheap units to delay the Axis.

[ezzler]

Just tried a '40 Barb.
Big disaster.

Whole line stalled well before the usual 41 gains. Dnepropetrovsk was the line in the south.
By '42 All of Russia was lost and the Poland/Romania border was the frontier.Though this was easily stabilised until now {mar/apr 43}

And lost Libya - bit of bad luck - bit of too much Italian air diverted to Russia.

The only thing keeping the war going was the allies were no where near ready and hadn't the transports to take advantage of the poor german position.

[Orm]

Just tried a '40 Barb.
Big disaster.

Was France Vichified when you launched that attack on USSR?

[ezzler]

yes. was the Missed the bus scenario. - just rushed straight into Russia in the Autumn. Made good early gains but the german troop limits seemed too low. couldn't get knock outs on the Russians and their builds were matching German builds, with allied help.

weather was same as usual. Average to good impulses - very cold 1940 winter.Only took baltic states in the north. And those 2 hexes above the lake - was a real shambles.

[michaelbaldur]

Also look at the trade agreement.

There are a time when you have to dow, simply because the 2 bp from germany have to
Big effect. the resources and oil are nice, but you will lose them

[Jaimainsoyyo]

41 barb is imho better if you really want to win the game as the axis, nonetheless I think that the goals shouldn´t be ambitous so: taking Kiev, the 3 resources close to Dnepropetrovsk and crossing the Dnieper river line is enough, use bad weather to bring your airpower to the front line and strat bombing if a soviet factory hasn´t any interceptor at range during the winter. Then prepare for your offensive of summer 42,build some offensives, use your subs against the CW during these turns and if there is a decent chance of some winter attack against Leningrad go for it.