WitE 2

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:24 pm

I haven't taken offence. I really like strong opinion and argument but detest insult. Argument is a catalyst to improvement.

Delivering a map of this type with 36,000 hexes is a challenge and I appreciate that some might not like it. Morvael's comment is well made but such improvements need someone with the requisite graphic art skills and the dedication to make the changes. Volunteer effort is a huge part of delivering these games. Finding someone to do so is very difficult as I know all too well.

robinsa · Post by **robinsa** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:55 am

That's a good approach. I don't think my initial critique was constructive in nature but lets move on from that. I appreciate your work and lets hope someone with the right skill set and time appear!

Icier · Post by **Icier** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:46 am

ORIGINAL: robinsa

I understand you reasons for using the new map. Sorry for using the word ugly. That's not actually what I meant. The artwork itself is not bad per se. What I mean is that the repetitive nature of the map becomes tiresome and the map feels extremely sterile. I liked the original WITE map and the modded WITE/WITPAE maps because they had a lot of personality. Each region felt different due to the different color schemes and tones (I am no artist so I can only describe my experience). I don't get that feeling with the WITW map. In fact I would have trouble distinguishing one area from another unless there are some very distinctive geological features. I imagine the WITE map will have even less personality due to the amount of open land.

Perhaps Jison may come to the rescue.

chrisdrost · Post by **chrisdrost** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:48 pm

The Jison map mod looks great. The WiTE maps current and planned in my opinion are ugly.

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:15 pm

ORIGINAL: chrisdrost

The Jison map mod looks great. The WiTE maps current and planned in my opinion are ugly.

They are made in a completely different manner. Before we started on WitE2 I asked Jison for his original artwork to look to see whether I could reproduce his mod in WitW format. Whilst supportive he couldn't do so as he had not kept the files.

Icier · Post by **Icier** » Sat Dec 03, 2016 5:03 pm

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

ORIGINAL: chrisdrost

The Jison map mod looks great. The WiTE maps current and planned in my opinion are ugly.

They are made in a completely different manner. Before we started on WitE2 I asked Jison for his original artwork to look to see whether I could reproduce his mod in WitW format. Whilst supportive he couldn't do so as he had not kept the files.

Pity..his maps had style & made the game a joy to the eye...in other words "LESS EYE STRAIN"

Commanderski · Post by **Commanderski** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:45 am

While over the years more and more information is coming out about the land battles on the Eastern Front and there are quite a few great books on the subject from various authors but very little has been written about the air wars. I'm sure they played a more significant impact on the battles than most books give them credit for if the air combat is mentioned at all.

Since the air war in WITE 2.0 will be modeled after WITW, what sources are you using to develop the air directives..etc.?

I like to read about what I'm using in the game as it helps to know the capabilities of your units when planning your attacks. The same would be true of your air units. Are there any detailed books out on the air war on the Eastern Front?

BletchleyGeek · Post by **BletchleyGeek** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:41 pm

ORIGINAL: Commanderski

While over the years more and more information is coming out about the land battles on the Eastern Front and there are quite a few great books on the subject from various authors but very little has been written about the air wars. I'm sure they played a more significant impact on the battles than most books give them credit for if the air combat is mentioned at all.

Since the air war in WITE 2.0 will be modeled after WITW, what sources are you using to develop the air directives..etc.?

I like to read about what I'm using in the game as it helps to know the capabilities of your units when planning your attacks. The same would be true of your air units. Are there any detailed books out on the air war on the Eastern Front?

This would be a good one to start, if you manage to get your hands on it:

Black Cross / Red Star: The Air War Over the Eastern Front, Vol. 1: Operation Barbarossa, 1941 Hardcover
Christer Bergstrom, Andrey Mikhailov

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Cross-Red- ... 0935553487

EwaldvonKleist · Post by **EwaldvonKleist** » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:15 pm

ORIGINAL: Commanderski

While over the years more and more information is coming out about the land battles on the Eastern Front and there are quite a few great books on the subject from various authors but very little has been written about the air wars. I'm sure they played a more significant impact on the battles than most books give them credit for if the air combat is mentioned at all.

Since the air war in WITE 2.0 will be modeled after WITW, what sources are you using to develop the air directives..etc.?

I like to read about what I'm using in the game as it helps to know the capabilities of your units when planning your attacks. The same would be true of your air units. Are there any detailed books out on the air war on the Eastern Front?

The air war is not my prime interest, but according to Nigel Askey (author of Operation Barbarossa, the complete organisational and statistical analysis), it played a mediocre role in this campaign. Link to the very readworthy article:
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/wp-c ... th-411.pdf
More focused on the aircraft vs. tanks question:
http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/comb ... r-in-wwii/

I value Askey very high because he tries to give statistical proof instead of stories of single soldiers which tell about the omnipresent, devastating air force or superior T-34s.

Commanderski · Post by **Commanderski** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:43 am

Thank you Bletchley_Geek and EwaldvonKleist. I have Black Cross / Red Star: The Air War Over the Eastern Front, Vol. 1: ordered and is on the way. Volume 1 cost as much as volumes 2 and 3 combined.

The information that Askey wrote is very good and found his website. It will be interesting if he can develop that game he is working on.

EwaldvonKleist · Post by **EwaldvonKleist** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:26 pm

Btw. I can highly recommend Askeys Books. They are expensive, but have an outstanding density of information and statistics. As an engineer/physicist, he also writes profound about aspects like peneteation value, the influence if turret baskets on the tank Performance and all this stuff.
And he provides the probably most comprehensive Barbarossa OOB ever published

Confusedesh · Post by **Confusedesh** » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:41 am

If the engine allows it the developers should consider adding an under\over layer for the whole map that would alter the colour of the individual hexes so you could create an effect similar to what you have on the water but without the need to do so using individual hexes.

It would allow you to add contours to the land, shading and subtle differences in the terrain colours, no expert but this may be possible and not put a great strain on the calculations.

Photoshopped example of what you could then attempt........

In passing I came across the new map for Gettysburg: The Tide Turns

http://www.slitherine.com/products/635/ ... Tide.Turns

What a lovely map,I like the idea that a developer is not trying to make every map look like your viewing a cheap version of the real world from a balloon, you can still have something that is stylistic, beautiful to look at but also unique to the game.

Searry · Post by **Searry** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:56 pm

Hi, any news on this project? Should I still buy WITE1?

heliodorus04 · Post by **heliodorus04** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:32 am

ORIGINAL: Searry

Hi, any news on this project? Should I still buy WITE1?

A long way off. WitE1 is a great game, but I can't tell you what to do with your money. I have owned it since 2010 and I still play it often.

Searry · Post by **Searry** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:22 am

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

ORIGINAL: Searry

Hi, any news on this project? Should I still buy WITE1?

A long way off. WitE1 is a great game, but I can't tell you what to do with your money. I have owned it since 2010 and I still play it often.

Thanks! I think I'll buy it then.

Searry · Post by **Searry** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:46 am

I'd like to make a suggestion for WITE2.
Please enable divisional artillery to fire at targets other divisions are attacking. Why would you need to commit an entire division to bear it's artillery to use?

wodin · Post by **wodin** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:46 am

Like the map..would have been cool if the trees changed colour over the season though:)

swkuh · Post by **swkuh** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:54 am

Suggestion for something new to add:

Brief player notes to append to detail panels for HQs, divisions, and maybe smaller units. Such to permit player to annotate plans for that unit, e.g., "send to AG South next turn"

For playing multiple games over different response cycles, it would be great.

EwaldvonKleist · Post by **EwaldvonKleist** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:35 pm

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:03 pm

The notes issue has come up on the Dev forum.

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