Waypoint timing questions and possible bug...

[Lowlaner2012]

Hi there, I have been playing quite a lot since the patch, I have one question though and a possible bug...

I ordered a Tank company to assault and adjusted the delays on the way points so the platoons would move and reach the area around the objective at roughly the same time, then I moved the game forward by one order cycle...

I then decided to adjust the timing of the way points, then I had a weird thing happen, when I adjusted the timing of the lead T-80U unit even just by 1 minute the timing delay jumps by 11 mins, even when I tried to adjust the timing back to the way they were it would not allow me to go back to the original timings, is this WAD or a bug?

Save game attached...

Cheers

[cbelva]

Hey Stef, I took a look at your saved game and even set up my own test using your setup in your saved game as a model. I can see the bug in your saved game, but I can't duplicate it in any of my test. We will be discussing this tonight, but we need to be able to duplicate it to really fix it. If you continue to see this problem, please let us know.

[Lowlaner2012]

Thanks for getting back to me cbelva, I will uninstall, delete all files and reinstall and see if I can still reproduce the anomaly...

Maybe my install has gone a bit wonky somewhere down the line..

Cheers

[Lowlaner2012]

Hi Cbelva

I have just done a total uninstall + delete of my game folder, then reinstalled and I'm still getting the same anomaly, it kinda makes the game unplayable for me, can you think of anything else I can try, I may download the installer again from matrix to see if my install file is somehow corrupted..

Thanks

[cbelva]

I take it that you are using the WP version of a Time to Dance scenario. Can you do me one more favor. Can you give me the steps took in setting up this scenario until you discovered the bug. I tried to duplicate using the same setup (twice) and couldn't duplicate on my end. Maybe there is something in your steps that are triggering the problem. Thanks.

[Lowlaner2012]

Yes the WP pact version, ok below are the steps...

1. Place the T-80U company in formation in the setup zone.

2. Run the game for one command cycle.

3. Give the T-80U company a group assault order with 3 way points.

4. Run the game another command cycle.

5. Select the lead T-80U unit.

6. Adjust the timing on the 1st way point by one minute and press the proceed button and look at the way point timing in the unit info box, it goes forward by about 11 minutes.

[cbelva]

Thanks for the help. I am now able to duplicate the problem. I will have to pass it up to the programmers to see why it is happening. I don't think the problem is with the waypoint editor. I believe there is something inherent with the units that are causing them to adjust their start times.

I don't want a program that is full of bugs. But I will suggest that one of the most difficult aspects of combat maneuver is getting units to move together and reach the same point together. In fact, I would argue that it is down right difficult. Players who try to "coordinate an attack" where the units arrive at the same time are not being realistic. I have argued in the past that these times should be fuzzy and seen as an estimate, but players shouldn't count on them.

I disagree with this making the game unplayable. I have never placed much faith in the way point editor or the times listed in the game. I have always considered them an suggestion. In real life commanders and staff can place start times and estimates of maneuver times in the orders, but it still depends on the units carrying those orders. They might try to follow them, but things happen.

However, having said all that, we will be working to figure out what is happening and why.

[Lowlaner2012]

I agree that nothing regarding timing during battle is concrete, but it is weird that even a small change adds roughly 10 minutes to the move delay, and even when you try to change it back it wont let you go back to the old timing...

cbelva could you let me know when you have had the conference call regarding the bug?

Cheers

[cbelva]

I agree that that is strange. I don't think the problem is with the editor, there appears to be something causing the units to delay their movement and it's not reflected in the UDP until you go to the waypoint editor. I will be talking with Rob and Jim about this to see if I can figure it out.

[Lowlaner2012]

Any update on this guys?

Cheers

[cbelva]

This is not going to be a bug that will be fixed quickly. I discussed this with Rob the other night and demonstrated the bug to him so he saw exactly what the program was doing. The timing code is fairly involved since it affects a lot of things in the game and we must tread lightly with it. The timing code has been a real headache for him and he is rewriting it for the next version of the engine hoping to solve many of the problems that plagued us with RS. If I hear anything definite from Rob I will report back in this thread.