[RESOLVED] more air combat issues

[Yokes]

There are a couple of air combat issues that are driving me crazy.

1. Aircraft ignore nearby bandits so they can close on one WAAAAYYYY far away. Meanwhile that lowly MiG-21 puts an atoll up the tailpipe.
2. The logic seems to favor the aircraft the FARTHEST away from a target to take a shot. This seems backwards to me. For example, I have two aircraft 20 miles apart. There is a bandit 5 miles from the closest aircraft (and therefore 25 miles from my far aircraft). The one farthest away will always take the first shot. Meanwhile, my closest aircraft is stupidly flying directly at the bandit so that it can attack someone 100 miles away (see point 1). I would like to see the nearest aircraft deal with the bandit, and not the one farthest away.
3. I hate when an aircraft (or a ship/SAM) shoots a missile at a target that is between 1 and 20000 miles away because I got a split-second ESM uncertainty box. First off, just a second ago you knew that target was 100 miles away, and just because you momentary lost radar lock you think it can warp to within 1 mile of you? Why doesn't the uncertainty region slowly grow off the previously known location? (It often does, but sometimes it momentarily becomes that "bearing only" ESM uncertainty zone.)
4. I like that BVR-equipped fighters Winchester when all the BVRs are gone, but I hate that they seem to think they are completely unarmed. I have Eagles heading home with sidewinders and someone starts shooting at them from close range (gun shots!) and they just go defensive and never attempt to fight back. Would it be possible for some offensive shots to be part of a defensive engagement? Or is there some other way to do this? I am guessing the answer is to turn the "Winchester RTB" option off, but I don't want them charging into a gun fight wielding a knife. I only want them using the knife when they are in a knife fight. Make sense?

Overall I think this game is a huge improvement over Harpoon. However, these air combat issues, the completely blind submarines (mentioned in another thread), and the constant 12-knot ASW patrols are breaking most of the scenarios I have tried to build. There is a great foundation here, it just needs some tweaks.

Yokes

[ExMachina]

Great points Yokes.

Most of those behaviors can be "fixed" by micromanagement, however your point number 3 cannot and I've gotten bit by that behavior too. It seems like the AI staff plots passive contacts with absolutely no memory of prior active fixes (even active fixes that were a mere second old).

[Yokes]

ExMachia,

I agree about the micromanagement, but I hate micromanaging, and I want the AI to behave intelligently. It's frustrating trying to create a scenario that you want to play out in a certain way and see that ruined by bad AI.

Yokes.

[ComDev]

Thanks Yokes, have assigned to me and given top priority. Some of these are quite complex and will take time to implement properly. So will finish a few db additions and some other high-pri items for Command 1.03 first, before I get started on this [8D]

[mikmykWS]

1-2. Yeah its not that it stupidly picking the farthest its picking up the first it id's and detects (so an order of detection thing rather than any any sort of priority logic). It is definitely something we've talked about and will address.
3. The detect and shoot thing is an issue. If you can grab a save when this happens it will help us solve it.
4. Yeah this one is a challenge. Know when to hold and when to fold em kind of case logic.

Thanks for your input this stuff does help us make a better game.

[mikmykWS]

Just thought of something.

Using the opportunity fire might lighten the impact of a few of these. This basically opens up the AI to fire on known hostiles that are in range.

Hope this helps!

Mike

[Yokes]

Mike,

That's a great idea! I will try using the opportunity option.

Emsoy,

I appreciate how responsive you and the team have been when it comes to community feedback. You have a fantastic foundation built and I am happy to provide constructive feedback to make it better.

Yokes

[Dimitris]

Can we please get an update on which of the original reported issues remains at large and their urgency/criticality?

Thanks!

[DrRansom]

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

Can we please get an update on which of the original reported issues remains at large and their urgency/criticality?

Thanks!

I think the furthest back fighter taking a shot is still an issue, at least I recall something like that happening when playing Ruby Slipper. I made some savegames for other bugs, not this one...

For the BVR fighters not being able to shoot, I believe that is fixed. At least, I remember the Su-35s using the SRAAM after using up all the LRAAMs.

As for other air combat issues, I guess one issue might be aircraft kinematics, e.g. maneuverability being altitude independent and aircraft climb rates appearing to be broadly similar. (Though, I'd have to test the last one)

However, I don't think any of the above are immediately critical. The issue of the furthest back aircraft taking a shot was annoying, though.

[Excroat3]

Not sure how this could be fixed, but if you have a missile already targeted at an enemy aircraft, sometimes friendly aircraft won't fire even though they may be closer to the target than the actual missile is. So all I can do is helplessly watch and the enemy fighter shoots at my planes when they don't do anything in response. I guess that the issue is related to the furthest aircraft firing issue, but I just wanted to add this to make sure.

[Kitchens Sink]

I seem to recall that the "Collective Responsibility" side setting has something to do with that issue, but I haven't specifically tested it.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: DrRansom
I think the furthest back fighter taking a shot is still an issue, at least I recall something like that happening when playing Ruby Slipper. I made some savegames for other bugs, not this one...

If anyone is able to provide a save that reproduces this issue consistently it would be great.

For the BVR fighters not being able to shoot, I believe that is fixed. At least, I remember the Su-35s using the SRAAM after using up all the LRAAMs.

Thanks!

As for other air combat issues, I guess one issue might be aircraft kinematics, e.g. maneuverability being altitude independent and aircraft climb rates appearing to be broadly similar. (Though, I'd have to test the last one)

Thanks, logged the maneuverability issue separately. The climb rate problem was fixed a while ago, should be included on the next public release.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: Excroat3
Not sure how this could be fixed, but if you have a missile already targeted at an enemy aircraft, sometimes friendly aircraft won't fire even though they may be closer to the target than the actual missile is. So all I can do is helplessly watch and the enemy fighter shoots at my planes when they don't do anything in response. I guess that the issue is related to the furthest aircraft firing issue, but I just wanted to add this to make sure.

IIRC we solved this by providing the "self-defence threshold" range in the WRA settings. So for example even if your wingman's Phoenix (or friendly SA-5 etc.) is enroute, if the bandit gets too close the pilot still gets to shoot. If this is not working or there is another issue we'd very much appreciate a suitable save.

Thanks!

[Excroat3]

Yeah I've noticed that and my planes usually fire SRAAMs when close enough but the main problem lies within enemy fighters with BVR missiles, because if you let the AI do its thing your planes will close in and get fired upon by the enemy missiles without firing their own BVRs in return.

[Kitchens Sink]

I forgot about the Self Defense setting. I just did a little test. If you set your BVR weapons on the Self Defense Side Doctrine WRA to something like 90% of their max range, they will shoot the BVR weapons at enemy targets when they get that close, regardless of whether something is already incoming at the target. Or you can use 80%...whatever works for you.

Thanks for the reminder of this feature Sunburn...I can't keep up.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: Excroat3
Yeah I've noticed that and my planes usually fire SRAAMs when close enough but the main problem lies within enemy fighters with BVR missiles, because if you let the AI do its thing your planes will close in and get fired upon by the enemy missiles without firing their own BVRs in return.

If you can provide a save demonstrating this it would be great.

Thanks in advance!

[Jmsimer]

Just bought the game a couple weeks ago. I'm trying to play the first Northern Fury Scenario. My F16s keep flying right up to the MiGs without firing and of course then get waxed. They're within range, opportunity set to yes, no ambiguity in target location due to AWACs, I try setting attack orders (F1) and also manually (shift-F1). F16s are pointed at the target, but I get a message that the Sidewinders "have not detected the target." Altitude closely matches so I don't think it's cloud cover. What am I doing wrong?

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: Jmsimer

Just bought the game a couple weeks ago. I'm trying to play the first Northern Fury Scenario. My F16s keep flying right up to the MiGs without firing and of course then get waxed. They're within range, opportunity set to yes, no ambiguity in target location due to AWACs, I try setting attack orders (F1) and also manually (shift-F1). F16s are pointed at the target, but I get a message that the Sidewinders "have not detected the target." Altitude closely matches so I don't think it's cloud cover. What am I doing wrong?

Hi

If you've got a file please post it. Its just easier for us to tell you exactly whats going on.

As far as issues with sidewinder shots. First make sure the target is hostile. Next if its a rear aspect Sidewinder your aircraft may have to maneuver behind be in range.

Thanks!

Mike

[Jmsimer]

Target is definitely hostile. Friendly aircraft armed with AIM-9L and approaching from 90 degree to rear 3/4 angle. Tried to load a save file but now I can't see or edit any of the doctrines for some reason. I went into the menu to "change side doctrine," and when I went to EMCON the game crashed. If I'm able to get past these other problems to re-create the original one, I will let you know.

[Jmsimer]

Here is a save from the beginning of the scenario before the incident occurred, showing the settings. Note that all the F16s involved were part of the "AAW Consolidation" mission