Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Patience, and Firepower

[Sangeli]

Anyone? Would love some advice about what strategic targets to go after.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Anyone? Would love some advice about what strategic targets to go after.

The opposite of a fountain of advice on that here. Only the first time I've gotten to that point. There are so many different factories that when I was first able to reach the HI, before defenses caught up to me, I went for Manpower in daylight and that worked out OK until defenses stiffened. I also went after Oil, and LI to target supply. Heavy Industry to a lesser degree.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Anyone? Would love some advice about what strategic targets to go after.

The opposite of a fountain of advice on that here. Only the first time I've gotten to that point. There are so many different factories that when I was first able to reach the HI, before defenses caught up to me, I went for Manpower in daylight and that worked out OK until defenses stiffened. I also went after Oil, and LI to target supply. Heavy Industry to a lesser degree.

You didn't target aircraft factories? That's all I'm attacking right now: fighter factories. Maybe I should just stick to it but I'm considering adding heavy industry in because I know supply is bad. I already have some bombers in the DEI going after oil as well.

Anyway, have a perspective from the Japanese side?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Anyone? Would love some advice about what strategic targets to go after.

The opposite of a fountain of advice on that here. Only the first time I've gotten to that point. There are so many different factories that when I was first able to reach the HI, before defenses caught up to me, I went for Manpower in daylight and that worked out OK until defenses stiffened. I also went after Oil, and LI to target supply. Heavy Industry to a lesser degree.

You didn't target aircraft factories? That's all I'm attacking right now: fighter factories. Maybe I should just stick to it but I'm considering adding heavy industry in because I know supply is bad. I already have some bombers in the DEI going after oil as well.

Anyway, have a perspective from the Japanese side?

A few times I did, even vehicles a couple of times to knock down armour production, but mostly went after factories via Manpower.

[Bif1961]

You might find yourself, like the allies were in Europe in early 1945, running out of strategic targets. I would say aircraft factories, oil, and supply would be the highest piorities. Unless you want to hit ports crowded with ships to get VPs from sinking them.

[Sangeli]

July 26th, 1944

I make the mistake of leaving my support ships unguarded as they travel between bases and get caught by some MTBs:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hakodate at 120,53, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-174
MTB G-175
MTB G-176
MTB G-178
MTB G-179
MTB G-180
MTB G-181, Shell hits 1
MTB G-183, Shell hits 1
MTB G-184, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
AE Mount Hood, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
KV Marne, Shell hits 1
AE Mount McKinley, Shell hits 51, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
AKE Exmoor, Shell hits 8

I get revenge though by sinking another Japanese cruiser:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Muroran at 120,52, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Ishikari, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kazegumo, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Suzunami
DD Kiyonami, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kuroshio
DD Urakaze
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
CL Leander
CL Nashville, Shell hits 2
CL Cleveland, Shell hits 2
CL Biloxi, Shell hits 2
DD Dashiell
DD Gatling, Shell hits 1
DD Halligan
DD Hudson
DD Kimberly, Shell hits 1
DD McKee
DD Pringle


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Night Time Surface Combat, near Muroran at 120,52, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Ishikari, Shell hits 49, and is sunk
DD Kiyonami, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
DD Urakaze, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
CL Leander
CL Nashville
CL Cleveland
CL Biloxi
DD Dashiell
DD Gatling, Shell hits 2
DD Halligan
DD Hudson
DD Kimberly, Shell hits 1
DD McKee
DD Pringle

[Sangeli]

July 27th-28th 1944

The Great "Annoying" Battle

After destroying yet another Japanese cruiser and shooting down 300 planes for 75 losses (not shown in above post), Rev Rico sent me the following message saying he can't even slow me down, just "annoy". In an almost prophetic way, things immediately turned against me the next two days. One day of horribly inaccurate bombing, one day of no bombing because of weather. But at sea it was far far worse. My attempt to bombard Hokkodate has completely backfired:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hakodate at 119,53, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Suzunami
DD Kuroshio, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Arare
DD Samidare, Shell hits 1
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
BB Oklahoma, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona
BB California, Shell hits 4
CL Adelaide, Shell hits 4
DD Halford, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Hall, Shell hits 1
DD McCord
DD John Rodgers, Shell hits 1
DD Wadleigh
DD Hobby
DD John D. Ford
DD Peary


Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 39% moonlight: 11,000 yards



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Sub attack near Hakodate at 120,53

Japanese Ships
SS I-19, hits 1

Allied Ships
BB New Mexico, Torpedo hits 1
BB Valiant
BB Mississippi
DD O'Bannon
DD Cushing II
DD Allen


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Sub attack near Hakodate at 120,53

Japanese Ships
SS I-23, hits 1

Allied Ships
BB New Mexico, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Valiant
BB Mississippi
DD O'Bannon
DD Cushing II
DD Allen


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Night Naval bombardment of Hakodate at 119,53 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

72 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 27, on fire
BB Arizona

Japanese ground losses:
68 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB California
BB California firing at Hakodate Fortress
Hakodate Fortress firing at BB California
BB Arizona firing at 36th Division

The strait south of Hokkaido has turned into a hotbed of MTBs, subs, mines, destroyers. All of the most "annoying" things that can still harm me. Clearly, this bombardment was a terrible idea and I am in the process of trying to clear subs and ships before pulling back. Two BBs heavily damaged and one lightly damaged by torpedoes. But sending in CVs to aid in the ASW was a bad idea:

Sub attack near Kushiro at 123,54

Japanese Ships
SS I-19, hits 1

Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Alabama
BC Repulse
DD Frazier
DD Chauncey
DD Warrington
DD McCook
DD Endicott
DD Satterlee

The fleet was well protected by Fletchers but that didn't stop the CV Enterprise from going down! I did get sink or heavily damage a number of subs but that's hardly a consolation prize against losing the CV Enterprise.

And the attack on the ground did NOT go well:

Ground combat at Hakodate (119,53)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 71484 troops, 1502 guns, 1242 vehicles, Assault Value = 2163

Defending force 67663 troops, 766 guns, 348 vehicles, Assault Value = 1912

Allied adjusted assault: 1773

Japanese adjusted defense: 9021

Allied assault odds: 1 to 5 (fort level 6)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1179 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 140 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 35 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 30 disabled
Guns lost 45 (7 destroyed, 38 disabled)
Vehicles lost 11 (2 destroyed, 9 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6685 casualties reported
Squads: 25 destroyed, 693 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 102 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 45 disabled
Guns lost 140 (3 destroyed, 137 disabled)
Vehicles lost 71 (4 destroyed, 67 disabled)

Assaulting units:
93rd Infantry Division
38th Infantry Division
4th Marine Division
2nd Marine Division
767th Tank Battalion
41st Infantry Division
18th Canadian Brigade
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
2/16th Field Regiment
XIV Corps Artillery
XI US Corps
XI Corps Artillery
148th Field Artillery Battalion
Sixth US Army
225th Field Artillery Battalion
33rd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
7th Division
IJA Edo Brigade
71st Division
77th Division
36th Division
53rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
Hakodate Fortress
141st AA Regiment
55th JAAF AF Bn
1st Air Division
21st Field AF Construction Battalion
1st JAAF AF Bn
134th AA Regiment
5th Area Army
53rd Const Co
73rd Field AA Battalion
31st Air Defense AA Regiment
49th JAAF AF Bn
12th Field AF Construction Battalion
27th Army
77th JAAF AF Bn

I think my strategy needs to be changed. I won't be able to take Hokadate unless I can cut off the supply by taking the landing on the other side of the strait in Honshu. I made the mistake of not allocating enough troops to plan for my planned invasion spot initially so I am still at least a month away from that landing.


Therefore, I think it would be wise for me to concentrate on defeating Japan strategically instead of tactically supporting Hokadate with firepower which proved too costly. I will attempt to use my CVs to cover BB bombardments of coastal bases in conjunction with my strategic bombing campaign. This delay in operations could actually be a good thing in that the Japanese fighter factories to be too heavily destroyed to replace losses that will inevitably occur.

[witpqs]

Wow - your opponent is now the envy of submariner minded IJ players!

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Wow - your opponent is now the envy of submariner minded IJ players!

His strategy is relatively simple:

1. Keep subs in reserve
2. Deploy en masse against fleet targets
3. Withdraw when Allied ASW fleets regroup to counterattack

Works pretty well

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Sangeli
I think my strategy needs to be changed. I won't be able to take Hokadate unless I can cut off the supply by taking the landing on the other side of the strait in Honshu.

Looks like too few armor for the siege of that caliber. It's this specific Allied strength that counts the most against tough spots. And he does not have artillery or AT guns there too.

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Sangeli
I think my strategy needs to be changed. I won't be able to take Hokadate unless I can cut off the supply by taking the landing on the other side of the strait in Honshu.

Looks like too few armor for the siege of that caliber. It's this specific Allied strength that counts the most against tough spots. And he does not have artillery or AT guns there too.

Interesting. I have mostly been using armor in open terrain which explains their absence here; they are planning for other targets. TBH I've never had much success with tank heavy attacks because the LCUs are so small. If I had a tank division that would be a different story.

[witpqs]

Tanks are very much help against fortified targets. You can do without the preparation if they are arriving overland (and won't lose time preparing for their next target).

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Tanks are very much help against fortified targets. You can do without the preparation if they are arriving overland (and won't lose time preparing for their next target).

Ya, maybe I'll bring some more tanks in to help. Currently I have some in Canada.

[Sangeli]

August 4th, 1944

Things have been a bit quieter of late. No surface engagements or naval strikes by either side. But my 4E have been active in attacking Japanese fighter factories. Today I decided to switch it up and send my B-29s into Manchuria. Nearly all the industry there is within the normal range of B-29s and the Japanese are already struggling to defend Japan from my bombers.



107 B-29s in one raid! That's a lot of firepower! And they did plenty of damage:

Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 107

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 32



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Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 9

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 2 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 4



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Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 1



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Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 2



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Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 3



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Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 5

I also had very good success against a George factory:

Morning Air attack on Toyama , at 112,57

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 1

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 12

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

N1K2-J George factory hits 10

That's much more accurate than usual.

Meanwhile, I have developed some new tactics for the Death Star. I am slowly bringing them around Japan to launch Corsair sweeps over Japan to clear the way for my 4E in deeper bases. Part of my plan at this moment is to simply attrite the Japanese with superior planes and pilots. My strategy seems to be working:

Afternoon Air attack on Maebashi , at 113,59

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 23,690 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
A6M8 Zero x 14
A7M2 Sam x 1
N1K2-J George x 1
Ki-61-Id Tony x 43
Ki-84a Frank x 79
Ki-100-I Tony x 68

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 87

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 9 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 10 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 3 destroyed

With ratios like that and the destruction of Japanese fighter factories, the Japanese fighter strength must be plummeting. P-47s and P-51s do even better than that when weather permits. It won't be too long until Ki-44s, Ki-43s, and A6Ms are the backbone of the Japanese air force again.

[Sangeli]

August 16th, 1944

Things are chugging along. I am bombing fighter factories in Japan and industry in Manchuria with good success. Japanese CAP is still giving me some headaches so I have been avoiding more heavily defended bases. Today something very interesting happened. I had a fletcher fleet docked in southern Hokkaido for rearm/refuel but forgot to undock them at the end of the turn. Big mistake!!!

Night Time Surface Combat, near Muroran at 120,52, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-168
MTB G-169, Shell hits 1, on fire
MTB G-175
MTB G-186, Shell hits 3, on fire
MTB G-187
MTB G-188
MTB G-189, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Cogswell, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Conner, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Foote
DD Franks, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Heermann, Shell hits 20, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hudson, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Izard
DD Jenkins, Shell hits 27, on fire
DD Ross, Shell hits 11
DD Thatcher, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 10% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 10% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Allied ships attempt to get underway

Despite outnumbering the MTBs, my Fletchers got wrecked! Clearly having surface ships docked near the front line makes the sitting ducks. Even nimble Fletchers. My radar also did not work this time which definitely contributed to this disaster. And this was under the venerable Arleigh Burke who was the best destroyer captain of the war.

Currently I am about a week away from landing in northern Honshu. My greatest concerns in the landing are Japanese MTBs and CAP traps of my carrier bombers. I am debating simply turning off naval strike for all my carrier bombers because otherwise they will probably end up suiciding themselves against unimportant targets covered by heavy CAP. I really wish there was a way to tell my bombers to only attack BBs and CVs and ignore everything else. It's quite the irony that at this point in the war the value in carrier bombers is less than it was in 1918.

[Bif1961]

9 hits from 14 torpedoes is good shooting regardless if you were docked or not. The most under developed Japanese sector was there MTBs, Captain Hara of Destroyer Shigure fame, was the first Commandant of their MTB school. He was totally shocked at the sad state of their MTB development and how far behind the Allies Japan was.

[witpqs]

That is basically amazing performance!

[Sangeli]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961
9 hits from 14 torpedoes is good shooting regardless if you were docked or not. The most under developed Japanese sector was there MTBs, Captain Hara of Destroyer Shigure fame, was the first Commandant of their MTB school. He was totally shocked at the sad state of their MTB development and how far behind the Allies Japan was.

Exact opposite in this game. Japanese MTBs rule the seas of northern Japan.

[Sangeli]

August 21st, 1944

Well my forces landed on Honshu! It was a bloodbath in many ways. I won't post the full thing until tomorrow but here's a sneak preview of an air attack:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Hachinohe at 118,55

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 8
N1K1-J George x 8
N1K2-J George x 17
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 9
Ki-46-III Dinah x 13
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 27
Ki-84a Frank x 53
Ki-100-I Tony x 26

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 97
Martlet IV x 9
Spitfire VIII x 2
Thunderbolt I x 4
Spitfire VIII x 3
P-40N1 Warhawk x 16
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 6
FM-2 Wildcat x 629
F4U-1A Corsair x 424
F6F-3 Hellcat x 434
F6F-5 Hellcat x 224

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 4 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 10 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-46-III Dinah: 9 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 10 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-84a Frank: 21 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 17 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

[jwolf]

That CAP looks ... impressive. [X(]