TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

What was the reason behind placing the 'D' on Duguay Trouin?

warspite1

I don't like the name - but then realised I should have gone for the one that had not been disorganised and had better values!!!

[:)]

Good reason. [:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

What was the reason behind placing the 'D' on Duguay Trouin?

warspite1

I don't like the name - but then realised I should have gone for the one that had not been disorganised and had better values!!!

[:)]

Good reason. [:)]

warspite1

Yeah great play - just like missing Munich as a potential Strat bombing target [8|]

[Orm]

If Germany wants to occupy Frederikshavn you could move a infantry corps in Poland to the coast and then use it to invade Frederikshavn in a later impulse (provided that Germany takes a combined).

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

I don't like the name - but then realised I should have gone for the one that had not been disorganised and had better values!!!

[:)]

Good reason. [:)]

warspite1

Yeah great play - just like missing Munich as a potential Strat bombing target [8|]

Bah. Let them bomb. For now.

But try to protect cities with oil or two factories.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm


Mainly to reduce the German production.

Edit: The rail link to Turkey gets cut so that resource do not reach Germany.

warspite1

In your view is that worth the US hit?

No. But many like it. I think that there are several threads about this. I wonder if not Brian Brian is a supporter of this.

warspite1

So can peacekeepers travel through neutral countries or is Bulgaria toast? Bucharest and Ploesti are damn close to the border - although presumably they cannot now claim South Dobruja?

[Orm]

Strat bombing is a nuisance and annoying. But we need to keep our focus on what is important.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So can peacekeepers travel through neutral countries or is Bulgaria toast? Bucharest and Ploesti are damn close to the border - although presumably they cannot now claim South Dobruja?

Bulgaria is toast. But that doesn't really matter much since we can liberate it.

Only realistic route to reinforce Bulgaria is through Yugoslavia and I think it takes to long to open it (With DOW and clearing the rail line).

[Orm]

although presumably they cannot now claim South Dobruja?

I think they can still make the claim. But Germany could deny the claim. Bulgaria is already active so no change there. So it affects Rumania in a positive manner and Hungary in a slightly negate one.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

although presumably they cannot now claim South Dobruja?

I think they can still make the claim. But Germany could deny the claim. Bulgaria is already active so no change there. So it affects Rumania in a positive manner and Hungary in a slightly negate one.

warspite1

I saw nothing in the rules so guessed that was the case - historically it makes little sense. Hitler is not going to give that territory to a USSR -owned Bulgaria [:(]. Oh well if thems the rules....

[Orm]

Japan will take a combined impulse.

Is it ok if I do the first portion of the impulse up to, and including, the Japanese land movement. And then you do the second part?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Japan will take a combined impulse.

Is it ok if I do the first portion of the impulse up to, and including, the Japanese land movement. And then you do the second part?

warspite1

Sounds good to me - I will be taking a Land action.

[brian brian]

The Bulgarian Gambit is crudely effective. So much so, that it has already been made very much more difficult, even before the new rules come out. (I can't recall if WiF8 addresses this question. Possibly.)

Basically, on either the Factories in Flames (most likely), or possibly the Khaki in Flames counter sheets, the Bulgarians are given an additional unit, a 3-1 GARR I believe, with an arrival of 1938. This allows the Bulgarians to put a ZoC on all of their coastal hexes and the Russians then have to roll dice to get ashore. Or, telegraph the move considerably by building up divisions afloat in the Black Sea, giving the Axis more time to prepare a response.

The only real Axis counter involves attacking Yugoslavia, as otherwise only the Allies can triggger any activity by Rumania. So I do like an Axis attack on Yugo on the first turn, though there are several other reasons to do that. If such a campaign is in motion, the Axis can get some opportunities to airlift MTN troops into Bulgaria, or activate Rumania.

I'm not a fan of the Axis aligning Yugo or the Russians attacking Bulgaria; totally just gaming the rules, and a bit worse than gaming the action limits. Yugoslavia would have disintegrated into several small wars if any outside Power tried to align it. I did it as the Allies in my temporarily halted AAR only because I feel Hitler had no historical chance to attack Poland and France simultaneously - his political capital with his General Staff was not that


So basically at this point in the development of World In Flames, this move is now what is sometimes called a "Ghost of WiF Past" and current players of the cardboard game are unlikely to try this Gambit, but can take a 4:1 +1 (+9 2d10) shot at the beach with three divisions, on the third Allied impulse, or possibly up to a 6:1 if they drew a fast USSR TRS perhaps; or might need to have the Light Cruisers in play to get any Shore Bombardment, I forget. If only one division survives perhaps the Bulgarians could get about a 3:1 counterattack.

Note that the same countersheet gives the Portugese an extra pre-war unit as well, to slow down the equally gamey CW attack there.

I see no reason MWiF shouldn't include these units, a trivial change to the software.

[Orm]

Is there any major risk that there will be an addition to US Entry Chits in the German pool this turn?

[Orm]

Will Germany be night bombing French factories?

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

The Bulgarian Gambit is crudely effective. So much so, that it has already been made very much more difficult, even before the new rules come out. (I can't recall if WiF8 addresses this question. Possibly.)

Basically, on either the Factories in Flames (most likely), or possibly the Khaki in Flames counter sheets, the Bulgarians are given an additional unit, a 3-1 GARR I believe, with an arrival of 1938. This allows the Bulgarians to put a ZoC on all of their coastal hexes and the Russians then have to roll dice to get ashore. Or, telegraph the move considerably by building up divisions afloat in the Black Sea, giving the Axis more time to prepare a response.

The only real Axis counter involves attacking Yugoslavia, as otherwise only the Allies can triggger any activity by Rumania. So I do like an Axis attack on Yugo on the first turn, though there are several other reasons to do that. If such a campaign is in motion, the Axis can get some opportunities to airlift MTN troops into Bulgaria, or activate Rumania.

I'm not a fan of the Axis aligning Yugo or the Russians attacking Bulgaria; totally just gaming the rules, and a bit worse than gaming the action limits. Yugoslavia would have disintegrated into several small wars if any outside Power tried to align it. I did it as the Allies in my temporarily halted AAR only because I feel Hitler had no historical chance to attack Poland and France simultaneously - his political capital with his General Staff was not that


So basically at this point in the development of World In Flames, this move is now what is sometimes called a "Ghost of WiF Past" and current players of the cardboard game are unlikely to try this Gambit, but can take a 4:1 +1 (+9 2d10) shot at the beach with three divisions, on the third Allied impulse, or possibly up to a 6:1 if they drew a fast USSR TRS perhaps; or might need to have the Light Cruisers in play to get any Shore Bombardment, I forget. If only one division survives perhaps the Bulgarians could get about a 3:1 counterattack.

Note that the same countersheet gives the Portugese an extra pre-war unit as well, to slow down the equally gamey CW attack there.

I see no reason MWiF shouldn't include these units, a trivial change to the software.

You are right with the fact that it is too easy for the USSR to attack Bulgaria in the first turn. The US entry cost is somewhat of a downside here, but on average, the USSR gets quite a reward out of this action, since it usually also means that the Turkish resource has to be transported overseas to get to Germany...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Will Germany be night bombing French factories?

warspite1

Night bombing?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

Will Germany be night bombing French factories?

warspite1

Night bombing?

We play with the option night missions with the added house rule that only strategic bombing missions are allowed at night.

We also have a understanding that we do not fly past the enemy fighter screen to bomb targets behind it.

But the French fighter is only a '3-strength' so it will be at a disadvantage if fighting versus your bomber at night. ('day' fighters has a penalty if flying at night)

And since France use so many oil dependant units it will cause him a oil shortage for this turn and at least next turn. So it might be worth to begin a night bombi8ng campaign against France. Especially since there might be additional bombers rebasing to the front and they might even be able to attack un-intercepted.




RAC:14.2.3 Night missions (option 52)
When an aircraft or carrier plane flies a mission, you indicate that it is flying a night mission by right clicking
on the unit and selecting night mission from the popup unit menu. If you don’t, it is assumed to be a day mission. A
status indicator on the unit is shown when it is flying a night mission.
Different aircraft can fly a day mission and a night mission into the same hex in the same step. You always
fight naval air combats and port attacks during the day.
Air-to-air combat can only occur between opposing aircraft if they are both flying at night or both flying
during the day. There can be separate air-to-air combats in the same hex - one for the day mission and one for the
night.
Halve the tactical and strategic factors of aircraft flying night missions.
During air-to-air combat (see 14.3.2) at night, all aircraft except night fighters (those aircraft with a black
circle around its air-to-air rating) achieves one result less than normal. Thus an AX result becomes a DX, a DX
becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected. FTRs other than the front fighter
contribute nothing to their side's air-to-air strength during night missions unless they are night fighters.
[Clarification. The pilot death result is unchanged - Jan. 18, 2008.]
Resolve the missions after both day and night air-to-air combats are concluded. If you have flown both day
and night ground support or strategic bombardment missions against the same hex, total their values. You don’t
resolve them as separate day and night missions.
After it lands, any land unit you air transported, or paradropped, at night becomes disorganized.
Paradropping units must still fight any required combat normally (see - 11.15).

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

Will Germany be night bombing French factories?

warspite1

Night bombing?

We play with the option night missions with the added house rule that only strategic bombing missions are allowed at night.

We also have a understanding that we do not fly past the enemy fighter screen to bomb targets behind it.

But the French fighter is only a '3-strength' so it will be at a disadvantage if fighting versus your bomber at night. ('day' fighters has a penalty if flying at night)

And since France use so many oil dependant units it will cause him a oil shortage for this turn and at least next turn. So it might be worth to begin a night bombi8ng campaign against France. Especially since there might be additional bombers rebasing to the front and they might even be able to attack un-intercepted.




RAC:14.2.3 Night missions (option 52)
When an aircraft or carrier plane flies a mission, you indicate that it is flying a night mission by right clicking
on the unit and selecting night mission from the popup unit menu. If you don’t, it is assumed to be a day mission. A
status indicator on the unit is shown when it is flying a night mission.
Different aircraft can fly a day mission and a night mission into the same hex in the same step. You always
fight naval air combats and port attacks during the day.
Air-to-air combat can only occur between opposing aircraft if they are both flying at night or both flying
during the day. There can be separate air-to-air combats in the same hex - one for the day mission and one for the
night.
Halve the tactical and strategic factors of aircraft flying night missions.
During air-to-air combat (see 14.3.2) at night, all aircraft except night fighters (those aircraft with a black
circle around its air-to-air rating) achieves one result less than normal. Thus an AX result becomes a DX, a DX
becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected. FTRs other than the front fighter
contribute nothing to their side's air-to-air strength during night missions unless they are night fighters.
[Clarification. The pilot death result is unchanged - Jan. 18, 2008.]
Resolve the missions after both day and night air-to-air combats are concluded. If you have flown both day
and night ground support or strategic bombardment missions against the same hex, total their values. You don’t
resolve them as separate day and night missions.
After it lands, any land unit you air transported, or paradropped, at night becomes disorganized.
Paradropping units must still fight any required combat normally (see - 11.15).

warspite1

I'm loathe to lose that bomber though.....

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

Night bombing?

We play with the option night missions with the added house rule that only strategic bombing missions are allowed at night.

We also have a understanding that we do not fly past the enemy fighter screen to bomb targets behind it.

But the French fighter is only a '3-strength' so it will be at a disadvantage if fighting versus your bomber at night. ('day' fighters has a penalty if flying at night)

And since France use so many oil dependant units it will cause him a oil shortage for this turn and at least next turn. So it might be worth to begin a night bombi8ng campaign against France. Especially since there might be additional bombers rebasing to the front and they might even be able to attack un-intercepted.




RAC:14.2.3 Night missions (option 52)
When an aircraft or carrier plane flies a mission, you indicate that it is flying a night mission by right clicking
on the unit and selecting night mission from the popup unit menu. If you don’t, it is assumed to be a day mission. A
status indicator on the unit is shown when it is flying a night mission.
Different aircraft can fly a day mission and a night mission into the same hex in the same step. You always
fight naval air combats and port attacks during the day.
Air-to-air combat can only occur between opposing aircraft if they are both flying at night or both flying
during the day. There can be separate air-to-air combats in the same hex - one for the day mission and one for the
night.
Halve the tactical and strategic factors of aircraft flying night missions.
During air-to-air combat (see 14.3.2) at night, all aircraft except night fighters (those aircraft with a black
circle around its air-to-air rating) achieves one result less than normal. Thus an AX result becomes a DX, a DX
becomes an AA, an AA becomes a DA and so on. A DC result is unaffected. FTRs other than the front fighter
contribute nothing to their side's air-to-air strength during night missions unless they are night fighters.
[Clarification. The pilot death result is unchanged - Jan. 18, 2008.]
Resolve the missions after both day and night air-to-air combats are concluded. If you have flown both day
and night ground support or strategic bombardment missions against the same hex, total their values. You don’t
resolve them as separate day and night missions.
After it lands, any land unit you air transported, or paradropped, at night becomes disorganized.
Paradropping units must still fight any required combat normally (see - 11.15).

warspite1

I'm loathe to lose that bomber though.....

warspite1

......but let's do it anyway.....

[Orm]

Germany got a lot of got medium bombers in this game.

And it would indeed be sad to see one go. But losses against France are, unfortunately, expected.

I do recommend a initial heavy increase in Luftwaffe units and pilots. Then they will arrive in time for the spring offensive.