TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suggest you instead consider a invasion of Netherlands for next impulse. If we get one more impulse, that is.

What CW transports are available to get units into Rotterdam? If the Allies can't land a force in Rotterdam, then an invasion of the Netherlands might be a good idea. If they can, then it is not a good idea.

All the Allied TRS have been committed. But CW has one TRS in the North Sea that can debark one unit (5-4) into Rotterdam. Or France can abort their TRS to Rotterdam and thereby getting one French unit (6-4) into Rotterdam.

So Allies can get one unit into Rotterdam. Not even the ATR can help because no unit is available that can be airlifted. Although if they decide to plane one unit in Rotterdam there is a small chance that the turn ends and they can reinforce the city.

So maybe there is an opportunity to invade Netherlands now.

warspite1

So that I understand this.

Belgium
We don't attack Belgium because:

- of a 1939 Chit
- the turn may not end
- the weather may then be good and/or the Allies get first impulse

Holland
We attack Holland despite:

- the need to draw a 1939 chit
- the turn may not end but (if we get another go) the weather is rubbish and/or the Allies get first impulse

Haven't looked at % yet but high level I don't see there is a difference here.

[Orm]

Attacking Netherlands - 30% risk to draw a '39 chit.
Attacking Belgium - 80% risk to draw a '39 chit.

Therefore I tend to think that Belgium gives a US entry chit and Netherlands do not. This is, of course, not true at all. But there is a difference between the likelihood of getting a US entry chit those declarations of war.

[Orm]

The main difference between Netherlands and Belgium is that allies need to reinforce Netherlands by air or water while then can reinforce Belgium by land.

If Germany has placed their units right, has overrun capability on a one strength unit, has decent to good ground strike capability there is no way that Allies can stop Germany from conquering Netherlands the same turn the attack occurs. The main concern with Netherlands is to avoid Allies to defend Rotterdam. If the turn ends after the Axis invasion they can only do so by returning to base. The next turn Rotterdam has changed control to German and therefore they can then not debark into Rotterdam. So if Allies has no TRS available they can not defend Rotterdam.

In short:
- Allies can not stop Germany from entering Amsterdam on the surprise and conquer Netherlands.
- Allies can stop Germany from entering Brussels on the surprise.

If Germany has units in Rotterdam then defending Belgium and the Dyle river gets very tough. Therefore capturing Rotterdam before declaring war on Belgium has high importance. And the Allies often try to stop that development. But they need ready TRS to do so.

- Currently CW can send one unit to Netherlands, or France, (Rotterdam actually) and while the weather might be bad there should be a decent chance of capturing the hex on a low odds attack although German losses would be expected on such attack. Hence I prefer waiting hoping that the Allies will not wait with their remaining TRS so they have no way reinforcing Netherlands.
- Currently Allies can send medium support to Belgium (depending on weather next impulse). Likely to double stack all hexes defending the Dyle river (this, of course, depends on ground strikes and weather). Currently Germany is in a bad position to invade Belgium. Disorganized German units in the front line.

[Orm]

Anyway. I argued this more than enough. The decision on how to proceed is yours.

[warspite1]

Right, in order to progress the game I have decided not to attack Belgium - bit of a shame, but there you go.

I remain totally uncomfortable with the idea of sitting doing nothing while the Allies dictate and have decided that an attack on Holland should be carried out as this seems more acceptable to you - and remains within the scope of the original plan.

Do you wish to do the opening moves (assuming Italy or Japan are doing naval 'stuff') or do you want me to do the opening up to and including the German land moves?

[Orm]

I have not yet looked any closer on the Italian plans. Neither the Japanese plans. Our focus have been on the struggle within Germany on how to proceed with the war. Now that this is resolved the focus should shift at once, Or within the hour actually.

Although I would prefer to begin the impulse even if I have no naval moves. Although I suspect that we might have some.

Has a Italian/German staff been considered for joined operations?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

I have not yet looked any closer on the Italian plans. Neither the Japanese plans. Our focus have been on the struggle within Germany on how to proceed with the war. Now that this is resolved the focus should shift at once, Or within the hour actually.

Although I would prefer to begin the impulse even if I have no naval moves. Although I suspect that we might have some.

Has a Italian/German staff been considered for joined operations?

warspite1

In which case I will send over my orders as soon as I know how the Dutch will set up (not that they have a choice).

Re German and Italian co-operation, please let me know if there is anything specific you need me to incorporate in my moves. As said, there can be only limited resources available but let me know and we can discuss.

[Orm]

how the Dutch will set up (not that they have a choice).

Plenty of options on how to place the Dutch units.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

how the Dutch will set up (not that they have a choice).

Plenty of options on how to place the Dutch units.

warspite1

[&:] - I was referring to the 4-3 INF, sorry that I was not specific.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

how the Dutch will set up (not that they have a choice).

Plenty of options on how to place the Dutch units.

warspite1

[&:] - I was referring to the 4-3 INF, sorry that I was not specific.

So was I. [:)]

Edit: Although most seem to place it in the capital. But there are variations on this and at times they can be preferable.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm


Plenty of options on how to place the Dutch units.

warspite1

[&:] - I was referring to the 4-3 INF, sorry that I was not specific.

So was I. [:)]

warspite1

Well if they want to run the risk of losing Amsterdam this turn or next (if rolls go against them) then yes, there is a plethora of places they could put the 4-3....

[Orm]

and remains within the scope of the original plan.

[:)]

Makes your ally both happy and comfortable. Thank you. [&o]

[Orm]

I thought I would do the first part of our impulse? Was I mistaken and you do the first part? Either way, I thought you would do the US entry roll for Netherlands.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

I thought I would do the first part of our impulse? Was I mistaken and you do the first part? Either way, I thought you would do the US entry roll for Netherlands.

warspite1

See post 167 - I thought you were going to do it. If you want me to I will do the US Entry now.

[Orm]

I do not expect any units.

I would, however, appreciate any assistance that I could get. Currently there is some need for the ATR (including rebase to Italy), any infantry (leg) divisions available (and rail moves for the transfer). Perhaps the German MTN as well.

Future assistance with oil and resources for production will be appreciated. And 4+ range fighters.

[brian brian]

The Dutch INF has a # of options, particularly in the rain and late in a turn.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

I do not expect any units.

I would, however, appreciate any assistance that I could get. Currently there is some need for the ATR (including rebase to Italy), any infantry (leg) divisions available (and rail moves for the transfer). Perhaps the German MTN as well.

Future assistance with oil and resources for production will be appreciated. And 4+ range fighters.

warspite1

German orders pre-movement
3 x rail moves only:
1-4 INF DIV in Poznan to Kiel
AT in Poznan to Essen
Berlin Militia to [anywhere in Italy you want]

I will move the MTN to Warsaw for railing when possible

[Orm]

Italy currently has bigger needs for a infantry division than the militia. This because Italy has no way of transporting any other units to Sardinia except leg divisions and MTN. Either by SCS or by ATR.

If Germany plan to attempt any attack through the French Alps then, of course, it is another story. Or threaten such move.

Edit: Although I understand that Germany might have other uses for the leg divisions. They are in high demand. [:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Italy currently has bigger needs for a infantry division than the militia. This because Italy has no way of transporting any other units to Sardinia except leg divisions and MTN. Either by SCS or by ATR.

If Germany plan to attempt any attack through the French Alps then, of course, it is another story. Or threaten such move.

Edit: Although I understand that Germany might have other uses for the leg divisions. They are in high demand. [:)]

warspite1

Okay - take the division that was going to Kiel.

[Orm]

Does Germany want to port strike the fleet in Rotterdam during the surprise?

Any strat bombing of France when they have no fighter available?