Kremenchug Militia Division

[56ajax]

Apparently formed in Kremenchug in late July 1941, and by 12th September was disbanded with the remnants being incorporated into the 297th RD.

Originally consisted of 3 Militia Regiments.

Kremenchug MD is not currently in the game.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Apparently formed in Kremenchug in late July 1941, and by 12th September was disbanded with the remnants being incorporated into the 297th RD.

Originally consisted of 3 Militia Regiments.

Kremenchug MD is not currently in the game.

No offense John, but I would really hope the devs would work more on improving the mechanics, UI and larger scale systems (supply, production, combat algorithms) then to simulate accurately the development of every unit. I think the non-existence of this unit can be easily thrown in the abstraction bin? Many of the Soviet divisions were formed from militia divisions, and they don't seem to be represented in the game either.

Of course, if there's a person at Matrix Games whose responsibility this exactly is, and he/she is sitting idle, I have no objections. The more detail, the merrier

[swkuh]

@Nix77: KUDOS

Doubt that any developer or contributor has idle time. And if so, its well earned.

[Great_Ajax]

I am the one who manages the campaign scenarios as well as many of the shorter scenarios and although I don't work on WitE anymore, I am working on the WitE 2 unit requirements. Currently in WitE 2, the Leningrad and Moscow Militia Division are represented because they had somewhat common TO&E and they saw frontline combat. These units show up as shells (almost no manpower) and are filled out with manpower and equipment from the National sources. Most of them also rename to regular rifle divisions later (new feature not in WitE or WitW). Moscow and Leningrad are kind of unique in this regard. I am considering adding other militia divisions but I am not sold on the added functionality for the player. First of all, very few of these units actually saw combat and then as militia, they didn't leave their city until they were sent to regular rifle units. Do players really want to manage frozen militia divisions in the rear that suck up resources? 'Free Production' has been eliminated in WitE 2 so all units now have to receive manpower and equipment from the production system and will not show up fully manned or equipped.

The historical accuracy issue is another issue since cities didn't just form standardized militia rifle divisions. Most of these militia units were custom organized with whatever equipment they could get their hands on and formed hundreds of Militia Fighter Battalions and Brigades and every city mobilized these militia units. Very few cities had Militia Rifle Divisions. Basically. To me, this seems like a massive can of worms that is more work than necessary if a majority of these militias won't see combat and we're shipped to active combat units anyway.

Trey

[56ajax]

ORIGINAL: Nix77

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Apparently formed in Kremenchug in late July 1941, and by 12th September was disbanded with the remnants being incorporated into the 297th RD.

Originally consisted of 3 Militia Regiments.

Kremenchug MD is not currently in the game.

No offense John, but I would really hope the devs would work more on improving the mechanics, UI and larger scale systems (supply, production, combat algorithms) then to simulate accurately the development of every unit. I think the non-existence of this unit can be easily thrown in the abstraction bin? Many of the Soviet divisions were formed from militia divisions, and they don't seem to be represented in the game either.

Of course, if there's a person at Matrix Games whose responsibility this exactly is, and he/she is sitting idle, I have no objections. The more detail, the merrier

What the devs do with their time is up to them and Matrix. The question is whether you want an accurate OOB or not. Imagine if the German Volks divisions or Hiwis were left out of the game? Is that ok?

That said, I understand that there may be much dev effort expended on introducing a unit that would have a marginal or no impact on the game whatsoever, and if a pragmatic decision is made not to include it I totally understand that.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: el hefe
To me, this seems like a massive can of worms that is more work than necessary if a majority of these militias won't see combat and we're shipped to active combat units anyway.

Trey

Here, have a nice steaming hot can of worms: https://books.google.fi/books?id=Vr4Xr1 ... &q&f=false [;)]

This OOB document just shows how many militia divisions there actually were. I think the current decision of only having the militias that in the actual history saw some combat in the game is a good one.


That said, if I was a game developer, I would have designated people just stuffing my games full of details like militia divisions with their original names etc. These kind of little accurate details usually don't have a chance to break a game, so basically it's just pure 100% added value for the detail freaks

Having the resources to do it is another discussion. What I would do is give the fans and modders a chance to submit detail data (unit formations, weapons, names, pictures, graphics etc.) that could be added to the game in a modular fashion, with just a fast (but diligent and knowledgeable) QA in between. But what do I know, I'm just a simple gamer [:'(]

PS. Many gaming companies very likely do this already, but in my opinion they should really put more effort to involve the modders and fans even more in the process of developing and improving their games

[56ajax]

Yes, Nix77, that is just one of the resources I am using, and I will take it one step further, the Russian OOB is a can of worms. (Read what Glantz says about the NKVD units).

So what is needed is a clear set of rules or standards for units inclusion in the game which you apply to the worms, one by one. And I am quite open to what those rules are standards should be, provided they allow reasonable historical (and gaming) accuracy, and we stick to them, until enough evidence is found for change.

So if the rule is that Militia are not included if they did not see combat (definition need) then do you remove from the game those militias that did not see combat before they were renamed into regular Rifle Divisions? and if Yes, at what strength do you bring into the game those renamed divisions? and if No you need an exception to the rule.

(And yes, the Russian OOB is doing my head in).[:)]

[56ajax]

Trey, if you want to take a pragmatic approach on Militia then give some consideration to also including the Crimean Militia and perhaps not much more.

Cheers

John