Sqz stands down. The AAR is now concluded. Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J)

[SqzMyLemon]

My air force gets the day off again to recover fatigue. I need to perform CAP anyway as I have a large number of transport task forces currently unloading at Lae and Madang.

Four carriers complete their upgrades and sail from Brisbane to rejoin the fleet. I'm upgrading some more carrier squadrons to Corsairs. I don't have the numbers to just fly Corsairs, so half my carrier wing are Hellcats. I'll be moving every carrier together moving forward. I want to try and shred Japanese naval air strikes and possibly deplete KB's air wing without losing a ton of my own ships...if I'm lucky.

The bulk of the submarine fleet has also completed upgrades. They will begin patrols once again.

All the U.S. divisions withdrawn from Burma are deploying to Pearl Harbor. From there they will move to the Solomons.

In Burma my force continues to move towards its objective. I see lots of movement on the Japanese side, but I hope my effort to confuse is doing just that. I notice Toungoo now sports two IJA tank divisions. I hope to keep them there so that I can isolate Taung Gyi. I have to be careful to watch hex side controls. I have to make sure I have more than one exit hex side when I move to isolate Taung Gyi, or I risk having my entire army cut off if Erik sees an opening. All I want to do is neutralize Taung Gyi by completely isolating the troops there, or if Erik sees the danger at least force a complete withdrawal.

I've moved the Southeast Command HQ to Meiktila in an effort to draw more supply. If I can somehow get the base to over 20k I should be able to finally upgrade the remaining LCU's that need too. I'm at 12k right now.

[Bif1961]

In my game against an opponent I have been playing for 2-3 years we agree to 2nd best altitude ban plus 1K as max for each plane.

[Lowpe]

Tiemanj came up with very good tactics for the allies to handle low layered CAP. As I recall, First, he swept at the best maneuver band for the plane. Second he always swept with at least three groups. Three he was relentless and kept sweeping until he could send in the heavy bombers to trash the field, even if it meant bomber losses.

Don't sweep the same day as relocating a squadron. Good leaders, good pilots, etc., but you know all that.

Another interesting tactic, is to sweep as above and set your 4E bombers to bomb from 30,000 feet hopefully from a base farther away than the fighter spawns. Tiemanj would also hit the base at night...not sure what your HR are on that.

To me low level CAP layered is more realistic than high altitude sweeps in the stratosphere. YMMV.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Don't sweep the same day as relocating a squadron.

Why not? I do this. Just look at fatigue first.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Don't sweep the same day as relocating a squadron.

Why not? I do this. Just look at fatigue first.

For me they don't fly regularly. Especially irksome if you are trying to coordinate a bombing raid with the sweeps.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

To me low level CAP layered is more realistic than high altitude sweeps in the stratosphere. YMMV.

I totally agree. However, I see the low CAP settings as taking advantage of the air model. Since it forces my sweeps to drop down to lower altitudes, I lose the boom and zoom of the Allied fighters, which is what they were designed for. I've read enough to know that Allied pilots, once they learned they couldn't dogfight with Japanese aircraft then avoided doing so. Low CAP forces my aircraft to fight at a disadvantage and since I have no control over my pilots to avoid what they wouldn't have done in real life, I've had to just take it.

Considering I had one good day against Erik's low CAP settings and he immediately resorted to setting his aircraft higher knowing he'd get the bounce...well that's not kosher by me. I've been flying at 31k all game and getting destroyed on offensive missions because of the low CAP settings. When I've tried low altitude, it's the same result. Now that I've learned I can get more aircraft engaged to counter the low CAP, Erik's resorts to the bounce. If Erik wants to now employ higher altitudes to maintain an advantage, I have no choice but to raise the altitude of my sweeps. As long as I get the numbers I can counter both the low CAP and avoid the bounce...why shouldn't I get to employ my aircraft to their advantage as well?

This is exactly why I hate the air model in this game. It's too easy to exploit. Late war Allied fighters are designed for boom and zoom, not dog fighting. Low CAP forces my fighters to fight low at a severe disadvantage and I can't do anything about that.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Another interesting tactic, is to sweep as above and set your 4E bombers to bomb from 30,000 feet hopefully from a base farther away than the fighter spawns. Tiemanj would also hit the base at night...not sure what your HR are on that.

Pre-existing HR is that I can only use one bomber group per base when bombing an airbase or port on night attacks. There are no restrictions on industry bombing at night.

I have to admit, the HR's Torsten agreed to or wanted are ones I never would have myself. It's bad enough that I can't strat bomb Chinese industry for the duration of the game.

Tiemanj mentioned to me the same tactics, but I've been unable to sustain the losses. That may be different now that I know how to beat the low CAP with numbers and not get chewed up like before. However, now there is the problem of facing the bounce on top of overcoming the low CAP.

[SqzMyLemon]

The next turn is off to Erik.

I asked for confirmation of our HR regarding altitudes, just so I understand completely before jumping to any false conclusions.

[SqzMyLemon]

I received clarification from Erik. We are currently limiting sweeps to 31k, but CAP is unlimited. I admit to forgetting about the no limit on CAP, so I stand corrected on implying anything not kosher with what Erik did. That being said, I suggested no altitude restrictions moving forward. I know a lot of you no longer play with any limits on air operations and say it works fine. Francois and I, in my other PBEM also have no limits on altitude. I'll see if Erik agrees to no altitude limits. If so, I don't think I'll need to rely on stratosphere sweeps, rather rely on proper CAP and LRCAP settings. We'll see how things go if things, and if things become lopsided.

[Lowpe]

Really strange HR. I always have a problem remembering the HR.

I now have had two games with no China strategic bombing, and it frees up some AA and Fighters until it becomes the front lines....and then all of a sudden you need runways, support, and AA which of course you didn't fully appreciate.

I wouldn't sweat the industry, China doesn't make enough to support large scale fighting anyhow and you will want the industry as you sweep forward yourself.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I wouldn't sweat the industry, China doesn't make enough to support large scale fighting anyhow and you will want the industry as you sweep forward yourself.

I doubt I'll ever be able to fight in China the way the Burma campaign is going. No supply, no Chinese horde. [:D]

[SqzMyLemon]

July 2/44:

Bummer!

Allied sweeps lay a good old beat down on Japanese fighters today, but an Australian Mitchell II squadron gets slaughtered in return. A sweep of Wessel Islands was ordered, but the timing was off. The bombers flew in the morning while the sweep didn't show up until the afternoon. I really need to be more disciplined, because I am getting burnt too often by sweeps that don't fly before the bombers. I try to tell myself to sweep, then bomb, but I continue to assign both missions on the same day. No one to blame but myself when I know this will happen.

However, it was encouraging to see Erik's low CAP and LRCAP get crushed for a change. AAR's follow:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pisanuloke , at 58,57

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 44
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 11
Ki-100-I Tony x 10

Allied aircraft
P-51B Mustang x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51B Mustang: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x P-51B Mustang sweeping at 31000 feet *

CAP engaged:
31st Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 18 on standby, 18 scrambling)
8 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
45th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
71st I.F.Chutai with Ki-100-I Tony (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Aitape , at 95,118

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 7
N1K2-J George x 28

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 4 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 11 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 3 destroyed

CAP engaged:
331 Ku S-1 with A6M8 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 7 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
Ryuho-1 with N1K2-J George (28 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
28 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 9000.
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 6th Indpt SNLF Coy , at 83,126 (Wessel Islands)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 4
A6M5b Zero x 5
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 10
Ki-84a Frank x 7

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 15

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Mitchell II: 10 destroyed, 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Mitchell II bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 7000.
Raid is overhead
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 9000.
Raid is overhead
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 9000.
Raid is overhead
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 5000.
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 6th Indpt SNLF Coy , at 83,126 (Wessel Islands)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1
A6M5b Zero x 1
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 2
Ki-84a Frank x 3

Allied aircraft
Mitchell II x 16

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Mitchell II: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Mitchell II bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 189 minutes
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 139 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pisanuloke , at 58,57

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 22
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9
Ki-100-I Tony x 6

Allied aircraft
P-51B Mustang x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P-51B Mustang sweeping at 31000 feet *

CAP engaged:
45th Sentai with Ki-45 KAIa Nick (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 9 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
31st Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 16 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 55 minutes
71st I.F.Chutai with Ki-100-I Tony (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 5 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Wessel Islands , at 83,126

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 4 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 4
A6M5b Zero x 4
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 8
Ki-84a Frank x 6

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5b Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 5 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 7000.
Raid is overhead
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 9000.
Raid is overhead
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 9000.
Raid is overhead
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 8 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 5000.
Raid is overhead

At least the Corsair sweep of Wessel Islands encountered a decent sized LRCAP to wipe out. [8D]

On the day I lose 21 Mitchell II's (Oucho!).

Fighter losses amount to 7 Corsairs and 7 P-51B's. Japanese losses are listed at:

27 George
17 Oscar
9 Tony
15 Zero
4 Nick
3 Frank

Take away the bomber losses and it was a super day against Japanese low CAP. Now if I can only keep it up and avoid making the dumb mistakes that pad Erik's stats. I've stood everybody down tomorrow, as I expect Erik to set high CAP, but I'm not sure how I want to counter that yet.

As per our discussion, we are now playing with no altitude restrictions. I still plan on sweeping at 31k until I encounter changes in Erik's CAP settings. It's too early to get excited, but I'm starting to win some battles against the low CAP. There will continue to be bad days, but I'm starting to apply different tactics that seem to be working better. Of course, I'm still an idiot for ordering bombing missions when I sweep. I'm working on that. [8D]

It will be time to post a screenshot of Burma. My army will reach the hex northeast of Toungoo tomorrow. Then the advance towards Taung Gyi with more movement ticks to try and sow confusion to my real intentions. Erik has massively reinforced Toungoo and SigInt reports more units being deployed to Burma daily.

Allied preparations for the Central Pacific continue. The stage is being set for titanic Allied amphibious and naval operations within a few months. Can I finally get to KB is the question...and survive this time.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I wouldn't sweat the industry, China doesn't make enough to support large scale fighting anyhow and you will want the industry as you sweep forward yourself.

I doubt I'll ever be able to fight in China the way the Burma campaign is going. No supply, no Chinese horde. [:D]

As the Allies, I think you should bomb it. If you're advancing in China, you're most likely at a point in the game where you're able to support it logistically - either from the periodic overland shipments (there's no limit on how much can move up from Indochina, for example) or by sea.

As Japan, I think you should bomb the LCUs, barring a few special circumstances (a turtle at Chungking that you want to eliminate, for example).

[Lowpe]

I think the Japanese are misusing the Nicks and the George. I would look to pound that group more if you can.

No escorts for those bombers? Or long range CAP? I know you are the Allies, but I would try to get some escorts or LRCAP or both on all non 4E bomber attacks.

I would also look to use a bomber squadron against the airfields. Combined operations. Bombing can really lower the fighter pilot's morale. What is your largest bomber squadron available?

You will get to China...Burma is always tough until it absolutely collapses. Jocke capture 20+ divisions there, and I bet the Japanese will retreat very quickly once you punch thru somewhere.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

As the Allies, I think you should bomb it. If you're advancing in China, you're most likely at a point in the game where you're able to support it logistically - either from the periodic overland shipments (there's no limit on how much can move up from Indochina, for example) or by sea.

I'd like to bomb it too, but I can't. Pre-existing HR of no Allied strategic bombing in China for the duration. [8|]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

No escorts for those bombers? Or long range CAP? I know you are the Allies, but I would try to get some escorts or LRCAP or both on all non 4E bomber attacks.

I would also look to use a bomber squadron against the airfields. Combined operations. Bombing can really lower the fighter pilot's morale. What is your largest bomber squadron available?

Combined operations against major targets are out for me right now. Every large raid I've tried has been a disaster. Sweeps don't fly, escorts are assigned stupidly by the AI and I end up losing 50+ 4E's, because over half my bombers are sent in by individual squadrons only to get wiped out.

Right now I am sweeping...period. I am bombing smaller, lightly defended targets though. One bomber group with escorts. I know it's how the game works, but I refuse to risk losing large numbers of escorts and bombers with a combined arms approach right now.

There were no escorts for those bombers, because if the sweep had flown first I wouldn't have lost 20 bombers. However, you are right that I need to assign escorts. I need to play smarter because frankly, Erik isn't doing anything spectacular, he's just capitalizing from CAP against bomber forces at a tactical disadvantage, because of how the AI is committing my forces. I need to do everything I can to prevent both the AI and Erik from beating me, and that means better decision making and orders on my part, to compensate for the AI setting my bomber forces up for slaughter continually. For example, I don't need to be bombing Wessel Islands at all right now. I should have just waited until after I neutralize Darwin, then there won't be any Japanese LRCAP to worry about in the first place. Erik can have his day and pat himself on the back for nailing 20 2E's. If my sweep had flown first (being only 3 hexes away, or if weather played a role), it would have been a different outcome. I knew there would be LRCAP this turn, so I assigned a sweep. I should have also stood down the bombers though, or as mentioned assigned an escort.

[Lowpe]

Lets try to figure out why the sweep didn't fly over Wessel:

Supplies?
Weather?
Recently transferred fighter squadron?
Morale?
Leadership?
AV support?
Runway stacking?
Air HQ in range and their leadership?
Plane fatigue?
Recon over Wessel?
Squadron leadership and experience?

Normally I can figure it out.

I wasn't suggesting doing huge bombing attacks. Merely using a squadron of bombers at say 30K escorted by a squadron of fighters from the same base at 30K and some LRCAP there too. make them four engine bombers.

My experience is that if you fly sweeps one day, and the squadron is below 15 fatigue and morale is good, they will fly again the second day. Assign 10% to rest so you aren't flying damaged/fatigued planes pilots.

I would also, double checking your HR, fly a night raid with one squadron of four engines. Do it once and then rest. Start pressuring him to eat up precious runway space with NF. If you are going slowly, wait for the night airfield attack and then sweep the following day and stand down the night bombers.

Really a lot of the tactics depend upon the where the airfield is: island, land locked, or rail runway.

Try a deep port raid or airfield at night or if not defended during the day. I don't know what is in range...but you do have some really long legged beasties, especially the British. Get him to start stretching his fighters.

Also, if you are bombing an island and you can do it, put a sub there to catch downed pilots.

Just thinking out loud, and I definitely agree you should be sweeping wherever you can favorably especially against LRCAP.

[SqzMyLemon]

It's all good Lowpe.

It really comes down to Erik getting lucky last turn. The sweeps did fly, but in the afternoon. I suspect poor weather at the originating base (Groote) was the culprit. The bombers were flying from Mornington Island.

I just need to reassess my operations and avoid unnecessary missions. When I do commit to a mission, do just that, commit all that is necessary for a successful outcome.

I'll be stepping up bomber raids all over the map. I will avoid heavily capped targets and focus on missions against lightly defended targets. Missions against heavy CAP and AA just don't justify the losses.

[Lokasenna]

Also don't be afraid to try sweeping nearby bases, even dot bases, and trying to pull leaky CAP over to get slaughtered.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Also don't be afraid to try sweeping nearby bases, even dot bases, and trying to pull leaky CAP over to get slaughtered.

A great tactic when it works. It can also pull leaky LRCAP off base, too.