Ship shields and aircraft tops

[cardas]

Hope that includes some Fokker G.I aircraft for the Dutch

Here's a Dutch gunboat, maybe better classified as a patrol frigate in game.

http://navypedia.org/ships/netherlands/nl_of_a.htm
Dutch preliminary Van Speyk (Kanonneerboot 1938)

Max speed: 14/17/19
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 4240
Fuel: 157
Maneuver: 37/45/51
Durability: 5
Belt armor: 60
Deck armor: 35
Tower armor: 60
Tonnage: 1300

Armament:
1x2 12cm/45 No.9 - Front, Armor: 80
1x2 12cm/45 No.9 - Rear, Armor: 80
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Front
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Rear
1x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
1x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left
1x1 DC Thrower - right
1x1 DC Thrower - left
2x1 DC Rack - rear

Notes:
This is how what eventually post-war became Van Speyk was initially laid out.
Speed/maneuver/fuel/endurance: I haven't got any good source for what they had intended for speed. Navypedia says 19 knots at 3500 HP, but then it says post-war Van Speyk got a 5250 HP engine but only managed 17.5 knots? I simply listed all three values found on Navypedia. A bit of the same deal with endurance.
Armament: I think these would have been DP turrets, a reasonable guess is that they'd be somewhat similar to the turrets found on the Swedish Öland ( http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNSwede ... _m1942.htm ) considering they are Bofors turrets at around the same time period. Likely that it was a /45 gun rather than /50 though.

Dutch Van Speijk/(Van Speyk)


See previous for basic stats.

Armament:
1x2 12cm/45 No.8 - Front, Armor: 60
1x2 12cm/45 No.8 - Rear, Armor: 60
1x1 40mm Bofors AA - Rear
2x1 20mm Oerlikon AA - Right
2x1 20mm Oerlikon AA - Left
1x1 Hedgehog - Front
1x1 DC Thrower - Right
1x1 DC Thrower - Left
2x1 DC Rack - Rear
1x1 Type 291 AS Radar - All Sides
1x1 Type 285 AS Radar - All Sides

Notes:
Armament: This doesn't correspond to what Navypedia claims. Either that site is wrong or this was only a potential planned armament setup after the war. I'm unsure which is correct. Guns are not DP.
Radar: As radars in the game are either ground or air search, not both, you'd probably want to switch one with a ground search radar.

[cardas]

Another of the smaller Dutch vessels.

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/netherla ... bergen.htm
Dutch Van Kinsbergen (Artillerie instructieschip 1936)


Max speed: 25
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 5790
Fuel: 696
Manuever: 50
Durability: 7
Belt armor: 20
Deck armor: 20
Tower armor: 20
Tonnage: 1760

Armament:
2x1 12cm/45 No.8 - Front, Armor: 80
2x1 12cm/45 No.8 - Rear, Armor: 80
2x1 7.5cm/50 No.4 - Left
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Front
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Rear (alt. Center)
1x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
1x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left

Notes:
Armament: Both NavWeaps and Navypedia says it had 12cm/50 guns, I however am not as certain about that. I suspect they might have been more or less the same kind of 12cm/45 guns as the ones that were to be used on Gerard Callenburg.
The aft 40 mm Bofors could be considered a "Center" gun as the rear superfiring 12 cm gun blocks its arc towards the aft. It couldn't engage very low flying/naval targets directly to the rear.
There being two 75 mm guns to the left and none to the right isn't a typo, that's how it was. According to the Navypedia they were used for training, which seems reasonable. No clue as to what exact guns they were, that they were 50 calibres is simply a guess. Getting good info on the 75 mm guns in use by the Dutch navy using the internet only has been rather difficult overall. These were not DP mounts.
Armor: There was an outer belt of 13 mm and an inner bulkhead of 20 mm. I've gone ahead and used the inner bulkhead value of 20 mm as belt armor. This is in line with how Tromp is dealt with in the stock scenarios. Tromp had a outer 15 mm belt and an inner 30 mm bulkhead -> 30 is the belt armor value in the database.

[DOCUP]

Cardas:
Nice I was looking for the K class. Have you thought about doing some of the export warships from the Italians and I think Swedes?

[cardas]

Which export warships did you have in mind? The only ones that they actually got started on that I can think of offhand were the completed Argentinian cruisers Almirante Brown and Veinticinco de Mayo along with the unfinished Thai cruisers Naresuan and Taksin. They certainly had quite a few more projects that they tried to sell to other countries. None got to the point of being laid down that I can recall though.
They also exported some of their older ships. The Spanish destroyers Melilla and Ceute along with Huesca and Teruel being examples of that.

As far as Sweden is concerned I'm not sure they have any export warships at this time. The only design I'm personally aware of that they did for a foreign country is an alternative to what eventually became the Finnish Väinämöinen coast defence ships. I've also read that Poland considered the Swedish Ehrensköld-class lineage ships before ultimately going with the Grom-class, but that's it.

Eh, I suppose that doesn't answer your question. So maybe, but probably not?
-

Here's an attempt at a fantasy tender (AS/AD/AR? or something along those lines).

Max speed: 16
Cruise speed: 14
Endurance: 9000
Fuel: 1000
Manuever: 24
Durability: 20
Bulk cargo capacity: 2400
Tonnage: 6000

Armament:
1x2 10cm ? DP - Front
1x2 10cm ? DP - Rear
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Right
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Left
2x2 20mm ? AA - Right
2x2 20mm ? AA - Left

Notes:
Fantasy stats, of course.

[DOCUP]

I have only found a few ships that they had plans for, that were up for export. I have found 1 ship that was looked at by several countries. (UP 102) was the ship plan, but also OTO scout cruiser was the other one I found.

[cardas]

Ah, the Deutschland inspired one, right? I know the one you are talking about. I was planning to add the Italians eventually but I was hoping to make use of the side art that Gary Childress did to save work and he didn't make any of the what-ifs. Anyway I can only restate that I might do it, but probably not or at least not very soon.

Sorry about the late response by the way. I tend to sometimes read replies, intending to answer and the promptly forgetting that I did in fact not reply.

Another fantasy ship, old gunboat turned AG.

Max speed: 16
Cruise speed: 12
Endurance: 3500
Fuel: 490
Manuever: 44
Durability: 7
Belt armor: 65
Deck armor: 45
Tower armor: 51
Bulk cargo capacity: 610
Tonnage: 2440

Armament:
1x2 23cm - Front
1x1 8cm DP - Right
1x1 8cm DP - Left
1x2 8cm DP - Rear
1x1 57mm DP - Right
1x1 57mm DP - Left
1x1 12.7mm MG - Right
1x1 12.7mm MG - Left

And another AS, though on the small side perhaps.

Max speed: 16
Cruise speed: 12
Endurance: 4470
Fuel: 430
Manuever: 39
Durability: 5
Bulk cargo capacity: 1220 (only this high due to game engine rearm requirements)
Tonnage: 2240

Armament:
1x1 10cm DP - Front
1x1 10cm DP - Rear
1x2 20mm AA - Right
1x2 20mm AA - Left


Finally, to underline the fantasy character of the mod I'm ultimately working on; New land has been found!

(Second version is with the normal range (17 hexes) of a Betty indicated from a few islands)

Using the style of the stock map, still working on the map data. These imaginary islands belong to the Nordic side and are there to give a reason for their presence in the Pacific theatre of war. The island chain to the west of Australia would be almost undefended by troops. The main infantry Nordic infantry presence would be contained to (at least initially) restricted troops on the large island to the far south.

Let's not get into the geographical consequences of these islands and how they'd change the local weather patterns by the way. Also note that their positioning is restricted by the size of the map in WitP:AE, in "reality" I'd place the large main island further west. It's actual position would perhaps be somewhere around Île Amsterdam or Kerguelen.
In WitP:AE I'm restricted by the map borders and making sure there is a decent clearance between these islands and the magical off-map jumping border area.


I'd be interested in comments about the strategical consequences, if anyone is in the mood to chime in. Let's start with the default state and assume only stock forces on both sides. In general I'd assume these extra islands would in fact be a net benefit for the Japanese player, giving them more options in the early game to choke out Australia. Am I overestimating the early Japanese advantage here?

During the Allied advance phase of the game it's of less value. Yes, it's another axis of advance and you could station some B-29:s on the island furthest to the north to bomb some of the DEI. However the gap between it and Java is too large to give you a good great jump off point against it. You'd have an easier time against the Cocos and Christmas islands, but on the overall course of the game I'm thinking that these islands would be a bigger boon to the Japanese side than the Allied side. Thoughts?

The islands are about as far from the map border as Colombo is. I'm hoping that's enough of a buffer, I wouldn't want to move them even closer to the Australian west coast.

[btd64]

Your going to have to mod the pwehex file so the game will SEE the new islands. I have a editor for that, if you want it. Never been used, like new condition.[;)]....GP

[cardas]

Thanks for the offer but I'm already on the case! At the moment I'm simply pondering on exactly which pwhexe.dat I want to use as base. The Babes pwhexe with SL or without SL and with new Asian roads or not?

[DOCUP]

Cadras: Yes that was the ship I was talking about. I thought I was the only one who would read a reply and forget to respond. I do it all to often. Keep doing your art work. I'm always happy to see what you put out.

[btd64]

Cardas, Any German ships, non fantasy....GP

[cardas]

Same deal as with the Italians. Check out the stuff made by Gary Childress:

tm.asp?m=3785086

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: cardas

Same deal as with the Italians. Check out the stuff made by Gary Childress:

tm.asp?m=3785086

Thank you Cardas. I was looking for Gary's stuff, but couldn't find it....GP

[John 3rd]

Just grabbed another of your fine pieces of ship art.

[cardas]

Good to hear that they are of some use!

[cardas]

Okay, back again. I've mostly been fiddling about with how I want to setup the new map area. Still got one new ship and one kind of new.

Dutch Eendracht 'Dido' (Kruiser 1938, De Zeven Provinciën/De Ruyter(iii), post-war 1946 scheme D):

Max speed: 33
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 6100
Fuel: 1750
Maneuver: 44
Durability: 33
Belt armor: 75
Deck armor: 30
Tower armor: 30
Aircraft capacity: 0
Tonnage: 8350

Armament:
3x2 5.25in/50 QF Mk I - Front, Armor: 12
2x2 5.25in/50 QF Mk I - Rear, Armor: 12
3x2 40mm Bofors - Right
3x2 40mm Bofors - Left
2x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x2 12.7mm Browning MG - Left
1x4 53.3cm Mk IX Torpedo - Right
1x4 53.3cm Mk IX Torpedo - Left
1x1 Type 293 SS Radar - All Sides
1x1 Type 277 SS Radar - All Sides
1x1 Type 268 Radar - All Sides

Notes:
Guns: This is a post-war suggestion on how to finish the uncompleted Kruiser 1938 hulls. Most still use the 15 cm Bofors, but two schemes has the 5.25 inch guns. Not sure if these were to have been the wartime 5.25 inch guns or if they to have been the postwar 70 RPM mountings (that never made it off the drawing board).
MGs: Yes, despite being from 1946 they still have MGs, seems odd. I assume they weren't put their to really have any greater AA role but rather as a weapon for peacetime patrols?
Armor: Technically I'm not sure if there would have been any armor changes, I assume not.
Radar: As always you probably want to have radar choices that makes sense in the context of the game, e.g. one SS radar and one AS radar.

It's interesting how much less superstructure it appears to have compared to the pre-war design of Kruiser 1937/1938. Among others a lower smokestack and missing the tall rangefinder tower. Also very different from how the cruisers looked when they were eventually finished with the 15cm Bofors guns.

Dutch Flores (Flottieljevaartuig "Flores"):

Max speed: 15
Cruise speed: 12
Endurance: 4000
Fuel: 285
Maneuver: 40
Durability: 6
Belt armor: 50
Deck armor: 25
Tower armor: 25
Aircraft capacity: 0
Tonnage: 1457

Armament:
2x1 15cm/50 No.7 - Front, Armor: 80
1x1 15cm/50 No.7 - Rear, Armor: 80
7.5cm/50 No. ? DP - Rear
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Left

Notes:
As Flores looked before the refits that gave it its 2pdr mount and twin Bofors mount.
Armor: It has a protected cruiser like armor scheme. The "belt" here is the sloped part, the "deck" is the horizontal part.
Guns: Shielded mounts of course, not turrets.
Aircraft Capacity: Could handle 1 seaplane. In WitP terms still 0 aircraft capacity due to the lack of a catapult.

[cardas]

Dutch Johan Maurits van Nassau

Max speed: 15
Cruise speed: 12
Endurance: 3880
Fuel: 273
Maneuver: 40
Durability: 6
Belt armor: 50
Deck armor: 25
Tower armor: 25
Aircraft capacity: 0
Tonnage: 1537

Armament:
2x1 15cm/50 No.8 - Front, Armor: 40
1x1 15cm/50 No.8 - Rear, Armor: 40
1x2 40mm Bofors AA - Rear
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Right
2x1 12.7mm Browning MG - Left

Notes:
Pretty much a repeat of Flores. Some superficial differences overall, such as the more angled bow and slightly different bridge. Main difference is the gun/gun shield. The guns might have higher elevation but I'm not sure. The superfiring gun may also have had a larger firing sector compared to Flores/Soemba, but again, unsure.
Aircraft Capacity: Just as with Flores/Soemba and Johan Maurits van Nassau were technically made to handle 1 seaplane. In WitP terms the lack of a catapult still means I went with 0.


Finnish VMV 8 (Vartiomoottorivene, series 8-17)

Max speed: 23
Cruise speed: 12
Endurance: 650
Fuel: 6
Maneuver: 79
Durability: 1
Belt armor: 0
Deck armor: 0
Tower armor: 0
Aircraft capacity: 0
Tonnage: 31

Armament:
1x1 20mm Lahti AA - Front
1x1 40mm Bofors AA - Rear
1x1 DC Rack - Rear

Notes:
Patrol vessel (MGB/HDML/whatever). The 20 mm was pretty standard and many of them seems to have gotten the 40 mm Bofors. Still they could have a rather eclectic selection of arms (torpedoes, DCs, 47 mm gun etc)

[cardas]

Swedish Tre Kronor 1953?

Max speed: 33
Cruise speed: 15
Endurance: 4350
Fuel: 890
Maneuver: 45
Durability: 32
Belt armor: 70
Deck armor: 30
Tower armor: 20
Aircraft capacity: 0
Tonnage: 8040

Armament:
1x3 152mm M/42 DP - Front, Armor: 125
2x2 152mm M/42 DP - Rear, Armor: 125
1x1 40mm Bofors - Front
5x2 40mm Bofors - Right
3x1 40mm Bofors - Right
5x2 40mm Bofors - Left
3x1 40mm Bofors - Left
1x3 53.3cm Torpedo - Right
1x3 53.3cm Torpedo - Left
1x1 DC Thrower - Right
1x1 DC Thrower - Left
2x1 DC Rack - Rear
1x1 ? SS Radar - All Sides
1x1 ? AS Radar - All Sides
2x2 Mines - Rear

Notes:
Side armor is 70 mm belt - void - 20 mm bulkhead.
Deck armor composed of two separate 30 mm decks.
152 mm guns had an automatic loader, max angle of 60 degrees and probably a rate of fire of 15 rounds per minute at 60 degrees. Whether you consider 60 degrees elevation to be worthy of the DP designation is of course an open question. There were 152 mm rounds with VT-fuzes available and the intention was to use the main guns to engage aircraft.
40 mm Bofors guns ought to be the /70 version by 1953, not the /56 the ships in WitP use. But I'm not entirely sure actually.
Equipped with depth charge racks and throwers, but no sonar.
Mine rails, 40 metric ton worth of mines.

Landing craft, somewhat based on the Finnish Kave boats.

Tonnage: 35

Landing craft/ferry, somewhat based on the Swedish Skagul ships.

Tonnage: 300

Also some aircraft, some which I've already posted earlier.


Finnish VL Myrsky


Finnish VL Pyörremyrsky project


Finnish VL Puuska project


Swedish Svenska Aero J 6


Swedish SAAB J 19 project


Swedish FFVS J 22


Swedish SAAB J 23 project


Swedish SAAB J 27 project


Swedish SAAB B 17


Swedish SAAB B 18A


Swedish SAAB B 18B


Not sure I'm entirely happy with the camo coloring so I may change that further.