Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: obvert
The one limitation that leads to 4Es being used so much to support ground troops is the inability of the game to show the effectiveness of F/FB in strafing and close support rocket and bomb strikes. This part of the game just isn't viable on a large scale, as it was in the war, so the 4Es take that role.

I get your suggested point and crsutton's counterpoint. But is this a question of 'inability of the game' or 'just the way things work out'? I've not seen many late war games where Allied players really-o truly-o give ground attack FBs precedence. The P-47s are worth their weight in gold in the air war in most AARs I've seen. I've not seen a convincing Allied effort to separate out the heavier FBs for airfield strafing / rocket attacks as it's usually 'all hands on deck' for capable A2A airframes.

So, until I'm convinced that mass application of Allied FB firepower has been tried and universally recognized as incapable, I really can't say that it's a game 'inability' so much as a supply:demand issue. Most players would probably commit to air superiority and neutralizing the enemy's A2A options, so it kind of makes it their choice for why FBs / ground attack isn't as effective as IRL.

Well, one of the problems is that the best Allies fighters are the ones that carry the best payload. P39s, P40s and FM Wildcats although useful, usually only have one 500 pound bomb. I just never feel like I can waste corsairs and lightings in ground attack. Much less P47s which are just too deadly as a fighter to use in any other way. I like the Beaufighter but strafing is not very powerful in the game and they only carry 250 pound bombs. And, where the hell are the rockets? [;)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: obvert
The one limitation that leads to 4Es being used so much to support ground troops is the inability of the game to show the effectiveness of F/FB in strafing and close support rocket and bomb strikes. This part of the game just isn't viable on a large scale, as it was in the war, so the 4Es take that role.

I get your suggested point and crsutton's counterpoint. But is this a question of 'inability of the game' or 'just the way things work out'? I've not seen many late war games where Allied players really-o truly-o give ground attack FBs precedence. The P-47s are worth their weight in gold in the air war in most AARs I've seen. I've not seen a convincing Allied effort to separate out the heavier FBs for airfield strafing / rocket attacks as it's usually 'all hands on deck' for capable A2A airframes.

So, until I'm convinced that mass application of Allied FB firepower has been tried and universally recognized as incapable, I really can't say that it's a game 'inability' so much as a supply:demand issue. Most players would probably commit to air superiority and neutralizing the enemy's A2A options, so it kind of makes it their choice for why FBs / ground attack isn't as effective as IRL.

Well, one of the problems is that the best Allies fighters are the ones that carry the best payload. P39s, P40s and FM Wildcats although useful, usually only have one 500 pound bomb. I just never feel like I can waste corsairs and lightings in ground attack. Much less P47s which are just too deadly as a fighter to use in any other way. I like the Beaufighter but strafing is not very powerful in the game and they only carry 250 pound bombs. And, where the hell are the rockets? [;)]

The real problem with strafing, is that Japan normally can put up a strong air defense, hence the Allies need to sweep and sweep. Once my air force was crushed by the Allies, Tiemanj did use some fighters on strafing attacks. He should have done it more....because a lot of locations had light AA and were very vulnerable to it and he would have known it because of the high dl he had everywhere.

I think there is simply a mental block against strafing by most players. I don't share it. Hear that, Obvert?;)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

And, where the hell are the rockets? [;)]

That is a very good question. Another one, from the JFB standpoint, although certainly pretty ineffective, is where are the cluster parachute bombs to be dropped over a B29?

And finally, where are the balloons designed to set the Pacific Northwest afire?

And, really, truly, finally, why can't I shore bombard with my Iboats?

[:D]

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Agree with that. Think A2A is the far more important element.

The thing that gets me is in that last set of attacks I posted, Dan used nearly 70 B-29, 250 Liberators, but only 125 or so 2EB. Where are they? Should have them by the bucket and they were MEANT to be used tactically. Using 4-500 of those things would be horrific while the heavies bombed the heck out of AFs, Ports, and Industry.

The more I tend to think about this the better I like it. For over a month now those heavies could have been used to crush Fort construction in Formosa, Okinawa, or the other bases I am feverishly trying to build up. This doesn't include any Industry/Oil attack of which there have been NONE.

Perhaps it is a blessing in some ways but I really, truly dislike it.

Well, in 1/44 the Americans are only getting 35 B25s per month and 20 A20s. It is hard to keep the units up to strength. At least they are getting about 70 Liberators which are more durable and in better numbers. That probably explains it as much as anything. A disastrous air battle where 50 mediums go down will drain the pool and take two months or more to replace. Believe me, it can be a problem for the Allied player. I am very careful with my medium bombers. Commonwealth bombers are very few and very crappy at this stage.

I did some fairly extensive tests with strafing and ground attack some years back and posted my results. Basically, I found strafing to be woefully under powered. The success of ground attacks depended on bomb load and strafing no matter the skill level, had little impact. I also found that since FB do not suppress flak, any low level attack vs any unit that had decent AA defense was not worth the morale hit and losses. Unfortunately, FB do not have the same characteristics as AB and suffer for it.

So, unless the units attacked were small units without organic AA (such as Japanese tank units) or low on supply, then it was much more profitable to bomb with both attack and medium bombers above six thousand feet and not worth using FBs at all in the ground attack role. Against well defended bases or large stacks fighter bombers just pay too heavy a price. I still believe that this applies to this day and fight accordingly. This is why I mainly use bombers in the ground attack role. Remember that attack bombers only suppress flak at bases and on ship. As far as I know they do not suppress flak in any other situation.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

The main problem is that every AAMG in a 45 mile area shoots at any strafer.

[MakeeLearn]

A lot of improvising was done to aircraft in the field. So many forward firing machineguns were being put on planes that the ground crew would have to tighten screws and bolts after missions due to the firing of the guns.


Fourteen forward firing .50 cal. machine guns were put on a A-20 and their firing stopped the forward motion of the aircraft so some were taken off.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

A lot of improvising was done to aircraft in the field. So many forward firing machineguns were being put on planes that the ground crew would have to tighten screws and bolts after missions due to the firing of the guns.


Fourteen forward firing .50 cal. machine guns were put on a A-20 and their firing stopped the forward motion of the aircraft so some were taken off.

We had a great chance a few years ago to go to the Greeley airport and see the Barbie 3. This B-25 had that sort of .50 Cal set-up and it was truly AMAZING to see and terrifying to think about. Can you IMAGINE the sheer amount of lead coming out of those aircraft.

Just to make people jealous, I got to ride in it. Damn...it was fun...

[John 3rd]

To be fair about Formosa--there is another ID about to land...

The problem I have is placing a garrison at each of those islands mentioned above would require at least a Brigade. So---we're basically talking about moving five Brigades of troops to these islands. Would need to add at least one-two Engineer units for Fort building as well. Now some of those troops can come from the Marianas and get there fairly quickly. That would take care of some of this real easily.

As to the Aleutians, why do I need them? Can leave a Brigade behind Sz-6 Forts and it will hold against all but a HUGE assault. Dan is making a one-dimensional drive up from the south to the Philippines. He has, so far, demonstrated no desire to come any other way...

[John 3rd]

We're going to hit 245,000 hits tonight on the AAR. How about that??!!

BANZAI!

Welcome to my nightmare and thank you all for contributing to it.


EDIT: Meant to say 245,000 not 250,000. Am really looking forward to that day!

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

We're going to hit 245,000 hits tonight on the AAR. How about that??!!

BANZAI!

Welcome to my nightmare and thank you all for contributing to it.


EDIT: Meant to say 245,000 not 250,000. Am really looking forward to that day!

Your style of play and Dan's are so opposite that it really does make for an excellent AAR on both sides. I check in on other AARS but religiously read the two of yours. Plus it does not hurt that you both are experienced at writing AARs and present good ones that are easy to read and follow.

[John 3rd]

Thanks Sir. They do make very differing reads. I am sure he continues to write just like in his other AARs of the past. Very eloquent and enjoyable.

June 13, 1944

The Japanese stage a small CAP Trap over Tarakan. A sacrificial TF of 2 AK and 5 AKL arrive to draw an Allied response. They certainly get one in the afternoon. A massed carrier strike of 175 F6F, 65 DB, and 36 TB arrive but they find 58 veteran Franks ready to fight. The Franks easily plow thru the Hellkittens and get in among the bombers. By the end of the fracas, the Japanese lose 14 planes in exchange for nearly 60 American. NICE!

Dan has landed a beat-up 6th Aussie Division at Miri. I have the entire 6th Inf Div in 39 AKs at Singkawang. The 1.0x10^6 is moving east--perhaps due to the presence of the Kido Butai? Could the 6th take out the 6th in a sting and move operation? It is only a two day sail...

BB Nagato and Musashi get orders to raise steam. The Decoy KB begins to move out from its base as well.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Could the 6th take out the 6th in a sting and move operation? It is only a two day sail...

Even more risky now that he controls Palawan / Puerto Princessa and Sandakan on the SE Borneo coast. The time for kicking the Australian 6th to the curb was when it washed up ashore on Palawan 100% disabled. It was easy pickings then. Now it's a more risky proposition.

Plus, you will be attacking in 2x or 3x defensive terrain for the defender. You'll need to bring more to the party if you really are serious about exploiting this lesser opportunity.

I don't think it's worth it.

ETA: Very nice job on the CAP trap at Tarakan. [8D]

[adarbrauner]

go on with cap traps like this. that;s theway to weaken his logistics and wear them up. You should have started before though, i order to fight and try to keep Luzon. But maybe it's not too late.
I would not write off uzon!!

[John 3rd]

Am trying to hold Manila. Just had a fresh ID arrive and it bumped Manila's AV to over 1,200 with Sz-5 Forts. As to a question earlier I have a full strength Brigade and CD unit in Bataan. They will try to keep the door blocked.

I will know with the next turn if taking a shot at the Aussie 6th is possible or not. It pends on his movement.

Based on this, I am going to expose Kido Butai the turn after next. LET them be seen. Time to try and FREEZE the enemy...

[John 3rd]

The First TK Convoy is fully unloaded at Hiroshima and the 2nd TK Convoy begins unloading tomorrow. Just gto three of those excellent E Class ASW ships. They will make the screen even thicker for these convoys return trip.

The 3rd just is approaching Hainan without issue and loving towards Hong Kong.

Am forming the 4th TK Convoy at Singers and it will leave within 2-3 days. This one will be carrying over 150,000 Fuel/Oil.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

And, really, truly, finally, why can't I shore bombard with my Iboats?

The cunning Americans will respond to that with Bofors guns hidden in family homes though [X(]

See here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-YvF5eXwYM

[John 3rd]

June 14, 1944

The Kido Butai sails from Daito Shoto. Destination: Ulithi. Lots of SS in the area...

The 6th ID is ordered to land. The BBs are a day behind with the decoy KB moving to support. Over 100 Highly experienced fighter crews fly in to provide direct CAP support. This is a risk but we'll see how it plays out.

A large collection of TFs is spotted moving up the Eastern Aussie Coast. HERE is a PRIZE. Looks like there are some CVE and, perhaps, a new CV or two. Kido Butai shall be positioned to hit it. If Dan, as usual, moves his 1.0^6x10 to support the move then that is GREAT. It means the sealanes will remain open for TK traffic as well as allow the 6th ID to get a chance to tackle its new assignment.

The hex west of Rahaeng finally falls. That Inf Brigade and SNLF Assault unit held for two weeks. NICE! By the time the Allies enter the Rahaeng hex, the 33rd ID (at 80%) strength should be there in the jungle behind Sz-4 Forts and should serve as another speed bump slowing the Allied movement. My goal is simply to delay up here. The real problem is once Rahaeng falls then the valley is clear terrain. NOT GOOD!

No attack at Manila by the Allied juggernaut. The 24th ID finishes deploying and is ready. To the east at Mauban a small NZ unit makes the mistake of testing the Brigade there and gets stung. It will be more then stung tomorrow as the Brigade will attack to drive it out of the hex.

Am developing a sizeable pool of IJA/IJN pilots with at least a 50% Low Nav skill for Kamikaze Attack. The day is coming soon. Time to buy out my air units and start to position them...

[adarbrauner]

I don't know if it so great that main carrier fleet moves to join-cover the reinforcements from South.

that would mean, loss of occasion to conveniently strike him there.

Could it be possible to make convenient use of KB + land based some where else? ANY allied loss against sensibly lower Japanese's is just plainly good, anywhere (only, with a faster tempo-pace than what shown here since the beginning of this operation)?

Is great though, yeah, that you can have such information and intelligence on his moves, that is really great and valuable!

Kudos and congrs for delaying action in Thailand!!

I'm afraid the position Luzon is compromised already. More of a clever delaying and space-airfields denial, rather than a good fight. Painful.

The question here is whether is worthy to reinforce significantly (not with one division only + some thing more, that's only piecemeal) and start a good fight, taking the risk but to be cutted of and isolated, or not. Maybe yes...probably it is still worthy of, yes, to keep the fight as far as possible from inner land and sea, and as bloody and though as possible.

[John 3rd]

If nothing else, the 5 ID in the Philippines can be brought back for Homeland Defense. Using all those other IDs that I am looking at now becomes the top priority. Where best to place them?

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

If nothing else, the 5 ID in the Philippines can be brought back for Homeland Defense. Using all those other IDs that I am looking at now becomes the top priority. Where best to place them?

Does this mean you are evacuating the PI?