The Gamiest Game in Town - EL (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Sorry to here about the broke comp ...

Thanks. I will pass it along when he gets back on-line.

It is a long story but the the computer is not actually broken but the software that he is required by the State to use for his business will no longer run on it. So of course getting back in business is his priority. A new computer or massive up-grade, don't know which yet.

Knowing what he is going through with his software developers makes me appreciate how well witp-ae is maintained, especially when you realize how much more complicated ae is than most software. And, the LACK-OF built-in obsolescence.

[el lobo]

A question for Andav.

I have been reading witpqs's, "Rumble in the Southwest" book, er, AAR. A most excellent AAR.

How many bombers did you have bombing Chungking?

I like your interpretation of "elegance."

[PaxMondo]

When I bomb CK, I'm using 8 - 10 Helen groups ... 300 AC min ... 1200 250kg bombs per run ...

[Andav]

ORIGINAL: el lobo

A question for Andav.

I have been reading witpqs's, "Rumble in the Southwest" book, er, AAR. A most excellent AAR.

How many bombers did you have bombing Chungking?

I like your interpretation of "elegance."

witpqs did an excellent job on his AAR. I wish I had the time and dedication to complete my half. I did well to get the turns run much less post meaningful coherent commentary. I really applaud those of you who provide AARs.

I do not remember the exact numbers but it was pretty much all the IJA bombers plus some of the IJN bombers. I ended up moving some to Burma at some point as well as switching some over to bomb the front between China and Burma.

I think there is a real trade off here and I would have to seriously consider what to do in a future game. The biggest trade off is all these bomber squadrons where really good at ground attach and really poor at ASW and Naval Search. While they certainly sealed the deal at CK, I think it might be more important to have at least part of them working ASW. Witpqs' subs were a huge problem once the torpedoes started working. Having an elite bomber wing to fly ASW would have really helped keep the subs at bay and make sure oil and fuel flowed to the HI. A better pilot training program would probably have pilots ready to swap out once CK was taken and the planes were free for other duty.

And what is really depressing is the Allies will drop that many bombs with less then half the aircraft. When the B-29s arrive the ratios get even worse.

Wa

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

When I bomb CK, I'm using 8 - 10 Helen groups ... 300 AC min ... 1200 250kg bombs per run ...

I think I had close to 10 squadrons of Sonia running riot on Chungking, plus some Sally and Helen too.

[el lobo]

Thanks Guys,

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

When I bomb CK, I'm using 8 - 10 Helen groups ... 300 AC min ... 1200 250kg bombs per run ...

I have about 2/3 that. I will move in some more when we resume.

[/quote]

ORIGINAL: Andav
witpqs did an excellent job on his AAR. I wish I had the time and dedication to complete my half. I did well to get the turns run much less post meaningful coherent commentary. I really applaud those of you who provide AARs.

Not everyone has the time and/or the energy at the end of a RL day to do an AAR. Thanks for taking the time to help me.

ORIGINAL: Andav
I do not remember the exact numbers but it was pretty much all the IJA bombers plus some of the IJN bombers. I ended up moving some to Burma at some point as well as switching some over to bomb the front between China and Burma.

I think there is a real trade off here and I would have to seriously consider what to do in a future game. The biggest trade off is all these bomber squadrons where really good at ground attach and really poor at ASW and Naval Search. While they certainly sealed the deal at CK, I think it might be more important to have at least part of them working ASW. Witpqs' subs were a huge problem once the torpedoes started working. Having an elite bomber wing to fly ASW would have really helped keep the subs at bay and make sure oil and fuel flowed to the HI. A better pilot training program would probably have pilots ready to swap out once CK was taken and the planes were free for other duty.

As far as subs go, I am training Army pilots in ASW but I think I am going to go more with Pax's method of letting the air find them and war-ships attempt to get them. It would be nice to have some real killer air though.

ORIGINAL: Andav
And what is really depressing is the Allies will drop that many bombs with less then half the aircraft. When the B-29s arrive the ratios get even worse.

Wa

+1

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think I had close to 10 squadrons of Sonia running riot on Chungking, plus some Sally and Helen too.

Were the small bomb loads effective? I have some Ann groups there but I use them mainly to harass and slow-down the Allied units outside of the cities.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo
Were the small bomb loads effective? I have some Ann groups there but I use them mainly to harass and slow-down the Allied units outside of the cities.

They can keep units from repairing disabled, but won't create too many themselves. Early on, the bombing missions are good to train pilots. by now you should have ample pools ...

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: el lobo
As far as subs go, I am training Army pilots in ASW but I think I am going to go more with Pax's method of letting the air find them and war-ships attempt to get them. It would be nice to have some real killer air though.

I go with ships as they can, and routinely do, attack multiple times. AC attack once ... 5 - 8 DC attacks means better odds of getting hits, multiple hits => kills.
Aircraft though are great for DL ... enough aircraft you can get multiple spottings on same sub in same phase ... each spot is +2 +4 DL ... 3 = ~max DL 11. that's my goal.

[el lobo]

BURMA May 28, 1943 Turn 538

I am moving the units s/e of Prome one hex closer to Rangoon as it is in danger of being flanked plus I want it closer to defending Rangoon. The ID that Rio thinks is going to Moulmein is really going to Pegu to help secure the route to Chang Mai.

Reluctantly, I am starting to move units out of Magwe, again to secure my exit routes. The next time he moves into Magwe it will be with force. Once the oil stops flowing, there will be no reason to defend it.

My fourth George unit in Burma moved into Rangoon. I have been sweeping daily from Magwe but Rio has been judicious in keeping his fighters out of range.

CHINA

I moved two more Helen units to bomb CK and will move two more next turn or so. Once I get the bombing campaign up to full-swing I will march another ~1500 AV into CK.

[el lobo]

BURMA May 30, 1943 Turn 540

Not a good day for the Empire. Mandalay and Bassein fall.

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Ground combat at Mandalay (59,46)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 118580 troops, 2103 guns, 2789 vehicles, Assault Value = 4288

Defending force 35185 troops, 422 guns, 104 vehicles, Assault Value = 838

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 2527

Japanese adjusted defense: 192

Allied assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Mandalay !!!

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Ground combat at Bassein (54,52)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 720 troops, 0 guns, 106 vehicles, Assault Value = 59

Defending force 1065 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 41

Allied adjusted assault: 92

Japanese adjusted defense: 12

Allied assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Bassein !!!

[PaxMondo]

Clear terrain, '43. Allied firepower will now win even fights. Your forces Taung Gyi and North are in jeopardy of being cutoff and annihilated.

I really suggest that you get your next line of resistance in place ... in 3x terrain and get those forces to safety.

[el lobo]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Clear terrain, '43. Allied firepower will now win even fights. Your forces Taung Gyi and North are in jeopardy of being cutoff and annihilated.

I really suggest that you get your next line of resistance in place ... in 3x terrain and get those forces to safety.

Agreed. They are moving.

However, shouldn't I also be protecting, blocking that road that leads into Thailand and somewhat, China?

[PaxMondo]

Which one? East to Kunming or South to Pegu?

The answer is yes to both IF you have planned out the units to do so.

The one east is pretty easy, I generally use 3 - 4 understrength ID's or BDE to do it. In 3x terrain like that, you don't need much. Biggest threat to defend against is not letting them encircle you. Anyway, you can hold/delay up to 6ID's of his with those forces. Not many players will commit that much to going to Kunming ... takes months and months.

Biggest threat is SE ... here you not only need defense, but you need to know what you are going to leave in Singers to be sure those units are able to continue south, while everything else has to eventually escape east ...

I hate Burma. A lot of manouver and not a lot of room for error. You get it right though, and you can tie him up 12 - 18 months here easy. Blow it, and you can lose 20 - 30 units in a couple of weeks. This is where the game really begins. [8D]

Hopefully some others who are better in Burma than I am will kip in ...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Clear terrain, '43. Allied firepower will now win even fights. Your forces Taung Gyi and North are in jeopardy of being cutoff and annihilated.

I really suggest that you get your next line of resistance in place ... in 3x terrain and get those forces to safety.

Taung might be worth holding. It is hard to tell from the map without seeing who owns which hexsides and what the fort level is. I would be loathe to give up all that great terrain.

Each defensive position needs at a minimum one good AA unit; one good AT unit; one good soak unit; one good radar set; ART units plus infantry preferably 43 squads. Then you need to have reserves to cycle in and out, and possibly fire brigades in the form of Tank units.

Your tank divisions well supported can hold any x3 hex...just watch out for being bypassed.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Clear terrain, '43. Allied firepower will now win even fights. Your forces Taung Gyi and North are in jeopardy of being cutoff and annihilated.

I really suggest that you get your next line of resistance in place ... in 3x terrain and get those forces to safety.

Taung might be worth holding. It is hard to tell from the map without seeing who owns which hexsides and what the fort level is. I would be loathe to give up all that great terrain.

Each defensive position needs at a minimum one good AA unit; one good AT unit; one good soak unit; one good radar set; ART units plus infantry preferably 43 squads. Then you need to have reserves to cycle in and out, and possibly fire brigades in the form of Tank units.

Your tank divisions well supported can hold any x3 hex...just watch out for being bypassed.

"Taung might be worth holding."

Agreed, it might be your northern anchor ... but then again, maybe not. it depends upon so much....

Note Lowpe's unit suggestions ... How many units is dictated by how long your line is ... starting in Taung Gyi is a long way north ... do you have sufficient units to create a strong enough line to hold all the way south to near Pegu? Because if not, he will punch through in the middle and everything North will be lost .... did I mention

I hate Burma.

The IJ cannot win the game in Burma, BUT you can sure lose it there. Countless AAR's of how that happens; bottom line is that you cannot afford to lose too many units there. Some few in Singers, yes. Otherwise, none. You need to effect an orderly retreat all the way to Shanghai and arrive there not earlier than 9/45, but also not too much later ....

In contrast, the allies CAN win the game in Burma, but cannot lose it there. So, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I hate Burma....

[el lobo]

BURMA Jun 1, 1943 Turn 541

Thank you all.

My thoughts are that Rio will have 4K+ AV in Meiktila soon and this leaves Taung Gyi in an untenable position or easily by-passed. I think Toungoo with all of my northern AV concentrated there would be a better situation.

[el lobo]

PRODUCTION Jun 1, 1943 Turn 541

Accelerated this month:

J2M3 Jack 10/43
Tony 100-I 1/44
J1N1-S Irving 8/43
N1K2-J George 7/44
D4Y4 Judy 11/44
B6N2a Jill 8/44
Ki-84a Frank 10/43

Ha-42 8/45
Ha-43 3/45

[PaxMondo]

Flanks ... don't forget your flanks. Remember that because of the turn sequence, the allies see your movement the same turn you start ... you see the allied movement one turn later ... that is why they always will beat you to a hex. I call this the 'stealth' allied intel advantage. Good players use it effectively and it is a huge advantage.

The only counter is anticipation. There have been some great players and great AAR's on them. PzB was the classic. The ability to anticipate the allies movement before it happens. In Burma, you have to anticipate ... you can't wait.

Remember, allies have the advantage once they take the initiative ...

[el lobo]

CHINA Jun 2, 1943 Turn 543

I now have 180 Helens and Sallys bombing CK with more on the way. 2K additional AV has moved in to CK for a total of ~6K. I will DA on the first good supply day.

Can anyone tell if that is a movement smudge on the Allies south of CK? My units to the west of them have a movement smudge to the nw, which is correct. I guess I have a shortage of movement arrows.

The win at hex 73,47 is significant as these units will move to Paoshan. It has taken me weeks to kill this Chinese Corps. The units following my attacking force are more well needed artillery and a HQ. This will give Paoshan about 3K AV.

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Ground combat at 73,47 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 29672 troops, 283 guns, 246 vehicles, Assault Value = 929

Defending force 7558 troops, 7 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 831

Allied adjusted defense: 7

Japanese assault odds: 118 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
9598 casualties reported
Squads: 204 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 907 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
58th Infantry Regiment
71st Infantry Brigade
102nd Infantry Regiment
61st Infantry Brigade
12th Tank Regiment
60th Division
11th RGC Temp. Division
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
18th Chinese Corps

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: el lobo
Can anyone tell if that is a movement smudge on the Allies south of CK? My units to the west of them have a movement smudge to the nw, which is correct. I guess I have a shortage of movement arrows.

Yes, there is definitely movement there. Makes perfect sense too, to cut one of your main supply roads.