All things Football (soccer) related

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Warspite
Guardiola failed at Bayern and his start at Manchester City has not exactly been stellar.

But you never mentioned that Mourinho also failed because he did not win the Champions League with a football giant: Real Madrid. He missed the 3 chances he had. And he REALLY was supposed to win it...

Weird omission.

Besides, let's not resurrect this argument... again. Well, if others want to add something... [:D]

warspite1

No omission, it's a fact Mourinho was never able to bring the Champions League to Madrid and we've discussed this. But as part of that debate, Guardiola was touted as being so much better than Mourinho. Well that is not proving to the case at present. Why did I mention it?

Please see post 2457. It was you who re-ignited the anti Jose crusade. I am more than happy to knock it on the head, but I will comment if he continues to be brought up.

So do we make Jose Mourinho out of bounds on this thread? [:)]

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
So do we make Jose Mourinho out of bounds on this thread? [:)]

Of course not.

[TulliusDetritus]

Interestingly, despite you saying that he needs to win the Europa League for a Champions League spot, Mourinho's United are now just one point behind City...

Don't tell me a CL spot will be an Alamein / Stalingrad / Midway amazing thing

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: warspite1
So do we make Jose Mourinho out of bounds on this thread? [:)]

Of course not.

warspite1

Thought not [:D][8D][:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Interestingly, despite you saying that he needs to win the Europa League for a Champions League spot, Mourinho's United are now just one point behind City...

Don't tell me a CL spot will be an Alamein / Stalingrad / Midway amazing thing

warspite1

Now that is funny!

Of course not - after all, as we know, a top 4 spot in England is a piece of cake with Manchester United. Moyes/Giggs did it..... er sorry no they didn't... well van Gaal did it.... er no he didn't either....

Manchester United, after two seasons of poor management where some players of dubious quality were brought in for huge money, needed turning around. Jose is doing that it seems. One trophy done, another very possible, as is a Champions League place.

[warspite1]

...and yes, Conte is achieving with a squad that Jose built (and yes I think Conte is one brilliant manager too).

Just like with Ranieri at Leicester, when players - with the money and power they have these days - turn on a manager, there is only one winner. Jose won a league title with Chelsea and then, for what ever reason, the players stopped playing for him. That says more about them than it does Jose.

[VPaulus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...and yes, Conte is achieving with a squad that Jose built (and yes I think Conte is one brilliant manager too).

Just like with Ranieri at Leicester, when players - with the money and power they have these days - turn on a manager, there is only one winner. Jose won a league title with Chelsea and then, for what ever reason, the players stopped playing for him. That says more about them than it does Jose.

+1

[shunwick]

Vanarama National League Highlights Show | Matchday 45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jsreGs1Ijg

EVERY PREMIER LEAGUE FAN IN 90 SECONDS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP5m608TXBo

Best wishes,
Steve

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

...and yes, Conte is achieving with a squad that Jose built (and yes I think Conte is one brilliant manager too).

Just like with Ranieri at Leicester, when players - with the money and power they have these days - turn on a manager, there is only one winner. Jose won a league title with Chelsea and then, for what ever reason, the players stopped playing for him. That says more about them than it does Jose.

You said it.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Vanarama National League Highlights Show | Matchday 45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jsreGs1Ijg

EVERY PREMIER LEAGUE FAN IN 90 SECONDS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP5m608TXBo

Best wishes,
Steve

warspite1

Bournemouth and Hull continue to be the stand-outs [:)]

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
for what ever reason, the players stopped playing for him. That says more about them than it does Jose.

In every single job, if employees are not doing their job, it's the boss' fault. He allowed this to happen. Excuses, excuses and yet more excuses.

Besides, why this sudden naïveté? It's always the same old story with Jose. 1. two seasons: park the bus; 2. third season: crash the bus.

AND

Après moi le déluge

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: warspite1
for what ever reason, the players stopped playing for him. That says more about them than it does Jose.

In every single job, if employees are not doing their job, it's the boss' fault. He allowed this to happen. Excuses, excuses and yet more excuses.

Besides, why this sudden naïveté? It's always the same old story with Jose. 1. two seasons: park the bus; 2. third season: crash the bus.

AND

Après moi le déluge

warspite1

No deluge from me - we just come from completely opposite ends of the spectrum - and there is certainly no naivety either.

Name me 500 top European clubs and I will name you 500 that either want Jose or wanted him at one point.

You seem to think that two years park the bus one year crash the bus is a problem? You honestly think for Inter Milan its a problem? Yeah, thank goodness they hired Benitez and everyone since - how many Champions League wins is that?? You think that Porto wished to god they'd never hired him? Of course they do - after all they are basking in all the Champions League success since..... You think that Abramovich rues the day he ever hired the man that kick started Chelsea's rise to become one of the power houses of English football?

You have your opinion and I have mine - and we are both football lovers - but I have to say that I have no idea where you're coming from.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I have to say that I have no idea where you're coming from.

I was clearly replying your comment or "players let me down" theory.

This is not the first time -and won't be the last- this theory is mentioned (other coaches, teams or even past eras). The Ranieri affair ie sacking involved this theory too. True or false, who really knows?

The thing is I don't believe a single word Jose has to say. He's proven countless times that he is both ruthless and dishonest. Ranieri on the other hand I might believe him -his behaviour is "normal" [:D]

So some journalist writes a piece about this theory. Because Jose said it in the first place? Does that piece make the theory authentic? Not to me.

What I believe is that Jose inevitably brings with him the tools that doom his teams. The famous siege mentality and of course the assorted endless antics, humiliations and scandals.

Three years is all he needs apparently: bingo! The human beings at his disposal are utterly worn out after this ordeal. And then these exhausted players let him down... oh well.

This is credible. Conspiracy theories, I don't buy them, thank you.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: warspite1
I have to say that I have no idea where you're coming from.

I was clearly replying your comment or "players let me down" theory.

This is not the first time -and won't be the last- this theory is mentioned (other coaches, teams or even past eras). The Ranieri affair ie sacking involved this theory too. True or false, who really knows?

The thing is I don't believe a single word Jose has to say. He's proven countless times that he is both ruthless and dishonest. Ranieri on the other hand I might believe him -his behaviour is "normal" [:D]

So some journalist writes a piece about this theory. Because Jose said it in the first place? Does that piece make the theory authentic? Not to me.

What I believe is that Jose inevitably brings with him the tools that doom his teams. The famous siege mentality and of course the assorted endless antics, humiliations and scandals.

Three years is all he needs apparently: bingo! The human beings at his disposal are utterly worn out after this ordeal. And then these exhausted players let him down... oh well.

This is credible. Conspiracy theories, I don't buy them, thank you.

warspite1

Who cares though - that is more to the point. Let's say you are right. Let's say that Mourinho's antics got him the sack from Inter Milan, from Porto, from Chelsea. Right, now count up the trophies won during his stay. Sounds like a good deal - no a flippin' great deal - where do I sign?

Oh no, that nasty Mr Mourinho left my club after 3-years. And what did I get for that eh? I mean apart from the League Championships, the Champions League, the domestic trophies. I mean apart from those what did Mourinho ever do for us? [Well there is always the great squads] Yes apart from the great players for the next manager to inherit, what did he actually do?....

[TulliusDetritus]

The question is, are you a Porto, Inter or Chelsea supporter? As far as I know, you're not.

I don't like any of those teams either so all I see is a guy with millionaires' expensive toys. And he manages to win, oh quelle suprise. Who ever said he coached mickey mouse teams? [:D]

As if he was the first guy to win leagues and CLs. Plenty of them out there. Each year *someone* wins these trophies. Besides, the CL title is basically a matter of luck (the cup thing vs regularity ie leagues).

A humble and rather gray guy like Del Bosque can also say he's won leagues and a couple of CL. Oh, and one Euro and one WC. Has anyone ever said that guy was top notch? Of course not. Needless to say, the guy never ever pretended he was the best thing out there.

And Jose does not build teams, by the way. He inherited Inter (*already* successful, I had to correct you on this one), Chelsea and Real Madrid toys. As I said, Jose worns out the toys. It's amazing Conte could inspire these guys again.

But you were the one that mentioned Guardiola's failure. Well, at least he didn't miss the Bundesliga titles. Mourinho won 0 CL and 1 (out of 3) leagues with Real. That has to be the most abject failure then [:D]

What you need to understand is that you will never get me to praise this personage. NEVER. All I see is mega expensive teams using cowardly small teams, relegation fodder miserables tactics. You like that? Fine. I don't. Now just respect this point of view.

And you already know it. Parking the bus tactics are perfectly legitimate and rational when your struggle is about mere survival. For example Sunderland in the EPL. Here it's not a choice, it's the only rational option if you're visiting Chelsea or Spurs [;)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

The question is, are you a Porto, Inter or Chelsea supporter? As far as I know, you're not.

No - as you know, but that has nothing to do with anything

I don't like any of those teams either so all I see is a guy with millionaires' expensive toys. And he manages to win, oh quelle suprise. Who ever said he coached mickey mouse teams? [:D]

Okay we are going round in circles - this has all been brought up before and if you are going to insist that winning the Champions League with Porto is something anyone could do well I can only guess at why you would do that

As if he was the first guy to win leagues and CLs. Plenty of them out there. Each year *someone* wins these trophies. Besides, the CL title is basically a matter of luck (the cup thing vs regularity ie leagues).

Who said he was the first. No idea what this has to do with anything

A humble and rather gray guy like Del Bosque can also say he's won leagues and a couple of CL. Oh, and one Euro and one WC. Has anyone ever said that guy was top notch? Of course not. Needless to say, the guy never ever pretended he was the best thing out there.

No idea what this has to do with anything

And Jose does not build teams, by the way. He inherited Inter (*already* successful, I had to correct you on this one), Chelsea and Real Madrid toys. As I said, Jose worns out the toys. It's amazing Conte could inspire these guys again.

No you didn't, nice try but I had to correct you. Inter won how many Champions League's under Mancini?

But you were the one that mentioned Guardiola's failure. Well, at least he didn't miss the Bundesliga titles. Mourinho won 0 CL and 1 (out of 3) leagues with Real. That has to be the most abject failure then [:D]

So you don't rate anything Mourinho's done but you rave about Guardiola winning the Bundesliga in a one-horse race?

What you need to understand is that you will never get me to praise this personage. NEVER. All I see is mega expensive teams using cowardly small teams, relegation fodder miserables tactics. You like that? Fine. I don't. Now just respect this point of view.

What are you talking about? I am not asking you to praise him - but equally I am not the one that, for no good reason brings up anti-Jose rants with boring monotony. As I said, if you are going to bring up that rubbish then expect to be challenged.

And you already know it. Parking the bus tactics are perfectly legitimate and rational when your struggle is about mere survival. For example Sunderland in the EPL. Here it's not a choice, it's the only rational option if you're visiting Chelsea or Spurs [;)]

Why are you trying to tell me what you think I know? If Mourinho had played Barcelona at their game then he wouldn't have won the Champions League. He found a way to beat Barca by playing the best tactics for his group of players - its called managing.

warspite1

Answers in red.

[TulliusDetritus]

To be honest, in general I don't praise any coach. Too subjective: how do you measure it? A pissing contest? Well, then Del Bosque has to be the winner yes or yes. I simply don't praise them (Mourinho AND guardiola etc).

The exception is when exceptional things happen ie Ranieri and Leicester or Benítez and Liverpool 2005. The former was astonishing, the latter, pure luck (the cup thing).

Other than that I can say I prefer Guardiola simply because he proposes attacking football, and that's what I like. As opposed to the mourinhesque "I'm the best, I'm the best!!", you will hardly get me saying x guy is better than y guy.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
if you are going to insist that winning the Champions League with Porto

Porto is no mickey mouse team. It's a historical European team.

[TulliusDetritus]

Warspite
its called managing.

ROFL

Samuel Eto'o playing as Right Back at the Camp Nou is now called managing. One thing is evident. Mourinho was admitting a) Barça were vastly superior (they would have won that match 9 out of 10 times) and b) despite the money at his disposal, he was incapable of building a similar team...

You really see the glass half full.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

To be honest, in general I don't praise any coach. Too subjective: how do you measure it? A pissing contest? Well, then Del Bosque has to be the winner yes or yes. I simply don't praise them (Mourinho AND guardiola etc).

The exception is when exceptional things happen ie Ranieri and Leicester or Benítez and Liverpool 2005. The former was astonishing, the latter, pure luck (the cup thing).

Other than that I can say I prefer Guardiola simply because he proposes attacking football, and that's what I like. As opposed to the mourinhesque "I'm the best, I'm the best!!", you will hardly get me saying x guy is better than y guy.

warspite1

He was successful at Real Madrid and then took Spain to a new level. I think that makes his a pretty special record. What that has to do with whether Jose Mourinho is a fantastically successful manager or not is less clear to me.

You prefer Guardiola because you prefer the style of football he plays - yes that is clear and that is fine and that is your choice.