OT - Titans of the Seas

[wdolson]

I tried to start reading this book last night:
https://www.amazon.com/Development-Operations-Japanese-American-Carrier/dp/0060102780/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492586735&sr=8-1&keywords=titans+of+the+sea

I got two pages in and saw two glaring errors. Both were minor, but seemed to be pretty lax research.

The first chapter was about Pearl Harbor. The first page said Genda was hoping the Enterprise, Wasp, and/or Hornet would be at Pearl on Dec 7. Why would he be wishing two carriers in the Atlantic would be there, but not the Lexington or Saratoga which were in the Pacific and the Lex was sailing out of Pearl at the time. The Japanese probably knew the Sara was in San Diego.

The other said the IJN carriers sailed in two columns, the first column being the Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu, the second being led by the Hiryu followed by the Shokaku and Zuikaku. Why would the Division 2 carriers be leading one column and trailing the other? I did some research online and the formation is well documented. The Zuikaku and Shokaku were tail end charlies of each column with the first two ships being the Division 1 and 2 ships in column with each other.

http://remorika.com/the-sherlock-of-the-pacific-war/

Part of me thinks I'm just picking nits, but on the other hand why read a book with such clear research errors? I'd wonder if the facts presented in the book I didn't know were right.

Bill

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: wdolson


I tried to start reading this book last night:
https://www.amazon.com/Development-Operations-Japanese-American-Carrier/dp/0060102780/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492586735&sr=8-1&keywords=titans+of+the+sea

I got two pages in and saw two glaring errors. Both were minor, but seemed to be pretty lax research.

The first chapter was about Pearl Harbor. The first page said Genda was hoping the Enterprise, Wasp, and/or Hornet would be at Pearl on Dec 7. Why would he be wishing two carriers in the Atlantic would be there, but not the Lexington or Saratoga which were in the Pacific and the Lex was sailing out of Pearl at the time. The Japanese probably knew the Sara was in San Diego.

The other said the IJN carriers sailed in two columns, the first column being the Akagi, Kaga, and Soryu, the second being led by the Hiryu followed by the Shokaku and Zuikaku. Why would the Division 2 carriers be leading one column and trailing the other? I did some research online and the formation is well documented. The Zuikaku and Shokaku were tail end charlies of each column with the first two ships being the Division 1 and 2 ships in column with each other.

http://remorika.com/the-sherlock-of-the-pacific-war/

Part of me thinks I'm just picking nits, but on the other hand why read a book with such clear research errors? I'd wonder if the facts presented in the book I didn't know were right.

Bill

Thanks¿ more or less; if the Japan knew tha carrier-war better.....the were not prepared yet

[Admiral DadMan]

Wasn't this book published in 1975? What we know now vs what was known 40 years ago in 1975 lightyears advanced.

[Capt]

Despite the author's doctorate in history he and his brother were writer's of popular history.

Have you looked at "Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941"?

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: Capt

Despite the author's doctorate in history he and his brother were writer's of popular history.

Have you looked at "Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941"?

Capt i will send you a PM to discuss the HR if your willing to as soon as possible.

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: Zecke

ORIGINAL: Capt

Despite the author's doctorate in history he and his brother were writer's of popular history.

Have you looked at "Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941"?

Capt i will send you a PM to discuss the HR if your willing to as soon as possible.

BE READY FOAR A MASSSIVE ATTACK COUNTERATTACK AND BLOCK ALL OF YOU (especially the ISLANDS AROUND PH)

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: Zecke

ORIGINAL: Zecke

ORIGINAL: Capt

Despite the author's doctorate in history he and his brother were writer's of popular history.

Have you looked at "Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1887-1941"?

Capt i will send you a PM to discuss the HR if your willing to as soon as possible.

BE READY FOAR A MASSSIVE ATTACK COUNTERATTACK AND BLOCK ALL OF YOU (especially the ISLANDS AROUND PH)

I WIIL PLAY AS A BUSHIDO; 2/3; 3/4.....LOTS OFC KIDOBUTAYS

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: Zecke

ORIGINAL: Zecke

ORIGINAL: Zecke




Capt i will send you a PM to discuss the HR if your willing to as soon as possible.

BE READY FOAR A MASSSIVE ATTACK COUNTERATTACK AND BLOCK ALL OF YOU (especially the ISLANDS AROUND PH)

I WIIL PLAY AS A BUSHIDO; 2/3; 3/4.....LOTS OFC KIDOBUTAYS

NO more than 4Cvs and ten units max; 40 PTS BOATS

[jmolyson]

Obviously a research or editing error. I see these types of errors in many military books I read, especially ones not
written from primary sources.

I think you agree the Japanese hoped all the Pacific fleet carriers would be at Pearl and thst's the point the author was making.

The Lexington and Saratoga were so distinctive in profile it's hard to imagine that they would have mistaken them for
Wasp or Hornet.

[dr.hal]

Bill,

That's the trouble with knowing too much, it can get in the way! I too have come across errors in text and get frustrated, especially if they are obvious errors easily corrected. I remember writing to one author trying to get him to understand the difference between a CL and a BB! He kept calling the Belgrano a "battleship". He wrote back a really nasty letter telling me to mind my own business. So much for colleague congeniality. Hal

[jmolyson]

I normally don't worry too much about errors authors make, especially since it's so easy to fact check these days.

On the Belgrano issue (ex-USS Phoenix Brooklyn-class light cruiser), it's a shame she was lost. We have no WWII-era cruisers as museums in the US and I think pretty much all of them have been scrapped long ago.

[wdolson]

There was a chance to save the Cabot a few years ago when she was retired from Spanish service. The movement to save her as a museum ship failed and she went to the scrappers.

A lot of the US cruisers that survived in US service got turned into missile cruisers, but I wish we had kept at least a few examples. The high battle star ships should have been preserved too. Imagine if the San Francisco and Enterprise were still around?

I think the only WW II era cruiser left is the Belfast, though I could be wrong.

Bill

[jmolyson]

It is a shame that several of these ships were not retained as museum ships. We have no Independence class light
carriers or escort carriers remaining.

I wish I had had a chance to visit the Belfast when I served in the UK. I also think that the City of San Francisco could use a dose of
patriotism as represented by their name-sake cruiser.

[Mobeer]

ORIGINAL: AYAAD
...
On the Belgrano issue (ex-USS Phoenix Brooklyn-class light cruiser), it's a shame she was lost. We have no WWII-era cruisers as museums in the US and I think pretty much all of them have been scrapped long ago.

USS Little Rock still exists in her modified form as a guided missile cruiser:
http://buffalonavalpark.org/exhibits/ships/

Belfast is also modified from her WW2 condition, as preserved she is in a mix of different era design

[jmolyson]

Wow!

Thanks, I had no idea this park existed. I will check it out on our vacation this summer.

Joe