Psychic Power Of Luftwaffe

[mogami]

Hi after shortest ever battle I used my 4k stockpile of points and upgraded all my MG to 37mm AA and all my T-34 to KV-1(e) all my new inf were guards. I was assigned a defend mission (rubbs hands together) the battle it's self was just your standard mow down the inf blow up the tank fight with the dug in inf evaporating to nazi arty fire. The battle was a 36 turn affair and I had placed 3 of my 6 inf companies in the forward battle area in support of MG and Rifle hardpoints behind 3 hexs of mine fields and wire. of my 18 KV-1(e)'s 9 were forward with inf 9 held well to rear in reserve with other 3 inf companies. Well on turn 4 we all know who showed up a JU88-A (do they really carry 24 bombs?) My tank platoon containing crews with 12,17,and 19 kills and 30 hexs from the front having never moved was entrenched and wiped out (along with guard infantry company. During course of battle my 12 AA guns shot down 9 Luftwaffe bombers and I won a desisive victory but my rear support units lost more then the ones in forward battle area and every one of the dead was a high exp/morale unit. I hate the Luftwaffe and any pilot I catch I use for bayonet practice before running over with tank. (wish they would bail out)
The Luftwaffe continues it's amazing talent for finding my best units and killing them no matter what I do. After the above battle I was ordered to assult HAHA I dug in 10 hexes from start line and deployed 4 companies from top of map to bottom put 9 scouts and 3 FO's out in front of this (spent all 2k support on arty) then only scouts moved on turn 3 the Luftwaffe appears
(I was ready had scattered all 12 AA guns all over place to cover whole rear area. Shoot down first 3 bombers then one gets through drops bombs (guess on who? KV-1(E) with 21 kills!!! next one wipes out my best inf company, next one destroys other 21kill KV-1(E) (I had 2) So now it is turn 5 out of 31 nothing in my force except 6 scouts have moved (they are fine) I saw 1 stug and killed it with AT gun (no return fire on it or ac) my losses in dug in troops and tanks are 12 squads dead 13 running 4 KV-1(E) destroyed 4 running I am on my 3rd HQ (this is battle 7) I now deploy all my units 4 hexes apart!!! The good news is his arty has not hit me yet? All the units destroyed were well back from front behind hills and in trees dug in. My inf has had a hard time ("this war kills everybody")Before they just died my most exp inf units were in high 70's all my tanks were high 80's is there a computer code that zeros in on your best guys or am I just really lucky?
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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[This message has been edited by Mogami (edited October 12, 2000).]

[herr1]

Waht version are you using. I am currently playing a british campaign in vesion 2.3 and have notices a similarly powerful Luftwaffe! I have been bombed by the deadly Ju88a's you mention and by Stukas carrying 20 bombs!!

I know I will be told by all of you to upgrade to version 4.3b but I am in the middle of a capaign.

The rate of current patches and upgrades makes me a little worried about starting campaigns. Why not make campaigns upgradable ?

I will hand over any Ju88a aircrew to my russian ally if he will send me any stuka crews he captures!!

[mogami]

Hi I am in ver 4.3b and I think Han Eric Rudel has been assigned just to kill my tanks! When I shoot him down and capture him I am going to stuff him down a 300MM arty piece (to see what calibur he is) and fire him in the direction of Berlin.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[Grisha]

I only play Soviet, and have come to despise the Luftwaffe I always put my tanks in cover(preferably trees) until they move, but those darn German flyboys always seem to find me. I remember one '41 scenario where my T-34s weren't even in view of the enemy, but Ju87s spotted them after(I assume) the German divebombers had been called in for a mission in the area. Those Stukas came back three times, and nailed that platoon everytime, destroying one tank, while severely testing the morale of the other two. I mean, there was smoke, and those tanks were in woods the whole time, although it was winter time.

I have seen those Ju87s drop those hellacious loads, releasing amazing amounts of bombs. However, the Ju 88 did, in fact, have a 24 bomb loadout: 4 x 250kg, 20 x 50kg.

I can't wait for when I start getting Shturmoviks, and Pe-2s, and Tu-2s.

[mogami]

Hi Grisha shouldn't that load out be 4x250kg OR 20x50kg? I don't think a Stuka carried 4000lbs of bombs. But I really hate seeing 50kg bombs killing dug in troops 2hexes from the impact hex. Arty and bombs catching infantry in the open yes it will kill you 100-150 meters away but dug in? it has to come in the hole to get you (I can see suppression but whole companies of mine vanish) Like I said I do not put units closer then 4 hexes from one another now and they still are hanging in pieces from the trees after these 4 plane 5 turn in a row attacks (I had one battle so far where axis only used 12 planes) Never mind I just reread your post and you switch from stuka to spade (did not know it carried 4k load)

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[This message has been edited by Mogami (edited October 12, 2000).]

[zombie]

Well i have had similar problems palying the Russians on the eastern front, what I do is in prefences is set the computers ( and mine ) air sections to zero, some might think this is cheesy but it stops the stukas from having a 5 min reload turnaround time, it is possible to defeat them if you have enough anti-air however.

[frank1970]

Don´t mess up Ju87: Stuka and Ju88: allroundplane.
Ju87 was used in many variations, the earlier had less bombs but at last they carried about 1500 kg.
Ju88 was a dive-attack able plane, mostly used as levelbomber and could carry about 2000kg, depending of range.

[halstein]

Russian aircrafts are not lousy either. I did som testing of high caliber arty, and air attacks. An Il-4, wiped out a platoon of SS-inf. So you might get even.

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Halstein

[Heartland]

Heh, I recognize this.

Just started a Russian campaign, and started off with a delay mission in the vicinity of Kiev. I screeched with glee, getting strange looks from my girlfriend, when I saw the map, since the German attack would have to come down a main road in the middle of the map. Plus I had a nice village to deploy in just where he had to cross a river that cut across the map. Infantry and machineguns took up positions in the village, with some screening recon forces on the flanks, while T-34s and KV-1s in position behind the village, ready to pounce the infantry could smell the sauerkraut on the wind. Three T-34s were in reserve north of the village, ready to hit the flank of any Panzers that engaged my main force.

Everything started out according to plan, with his infantry getting chopped to pieces by MGs and artillery as they tried to get across the river, while a whole trainload of Pzkfw-IIIs got across. When they slipped by the village and came upon my main armour, the T34s and KVs handled them reasonably well. The reserves from the north swung down behind the village to hit the flank of the kraut spearheaad. Things seemed under control. Then, *WHAM!* at least three of my tanks are wrecks, half of the remaining ones are routing towards my map edge, and most of the others are unable to fire due to supression levels. Now, a few stray machinegun rounds splatter off the German tanks every turn as my forces cower from Junkers.

Thank you Hermann. Just another glorious day in the Luftwaffe I suppose.

Now, I'm not saying this is wrong since it *is* June '41 after all, it's just annoying like hell.

[mogami]

Hi all air fans!!! The saga continues..Uncle Joe was none too pleased with draw where I lost 24 Squads of guards and 4 KV-1(E)'s but at least I got 2 crews back. He (Uncle Joe) has me making another assualt. This time I circled the wagons and put entire Battle Group in center of my deployment area to mass my AA fire. I am not moving intill Luftwaffe stops attacking (they came on turn 3 and destroyed a KV-1(E) but I shot down that Stuka plus another and then shot down 2 ME110's (some of my AA have over 10kills and have never fired at a ground unit!!! I have 35 turns, last game Luftwaffe's last attack came on turn 14 and I was only 2 hexes from capturing objectives. This battle my arty is working entire german postion over for 15 turns (3 FO's) and 18Btrys (2 can play this game I will turn the motherland into a moonscape) Wonder who the other 3 Germans were going after?...Sgt Jarnagin(22kills exp96mor97 and Sgt Pottorff 21 kills exp95Mor97 Jarny just shrugged off the 60 suppression I have a solid wall of smoke between me and the GURMANS and have 6 btrys impacting per turn. They are popping smoke all over the place over there. There are a dozen PZIII-J's doing some kind of square dance on the center objective. My infantry bns are not a happy lot morale in over half of them is under 60. Battle results so far 5 desisive victorys 1 draw 1 crushing defeat (famous shortest battle ever)

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[This message has been edited by Mogami (edited October 12, 2000).]

[Tankhead]

Hi Mogami!

I've read all your post on this tread and you 've made my day. ROTFL

Tankhead

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Rick Cloutier rcclout@telusplanet.net
Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources
http://tankhead.home.icq.com

[Voriax]

Howdy

The bomb loadout for the is a bit oversized indeed..let's hope Arralen will fix it
I try to remind him...

checked couple books and the maximum bombload for A4 variant was given as 3000kg. Normal bombloads were given as 4x250kg externally and 10x50kg internally, or 2x1000kg + 2x500kg externally and number of other combos, but this indicates it had slots for 14 bombs in total.

Herr1, you have an old version indeed..in the early oob's there were a number of nasty bugs where an ammo amount of 20 written in wrong slot created 20 guns/bombs..

Voriax


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OOB-Wan Kenobi

[victorhauser]

To put this in perspective, in the campaign I'm currently playing I have 25 M15a1 antiaircraft halftracks in my core (I'm playing US Army), all of which are experience 90 and higher. Needless to say, I haven't had too many problems with enemy aircraft.

I learned several years ago that the only way to beat enemy aircraft is to overwhelm them with AA fire. Charles poo-poos my philosophy of overwhelming AA because he thinks it's unrealistic. That might be true (although the Americans had 396 antiaircraft battalions operational in the ETO before rifle casualties caused them to be used as rifle replacements), but you seldom hear me complaining about enemy airpower.

If it takes an 88 flak regiment to give my troops antiaircraft protection, then by golly my troops will get that regiment! Nothing but the best for my boys, I say!

[mogami]

Howdy.. It took 9 hours but I finished the battle Luftwaffe only sent 6 plances and I shot all of them down (3 bombed first killing 1 tank and 3 squads) total losses for battle 2 Tanks (1 to mine but crew ok) 26
squads out of 94. I just used arty for first 8 turns then sent the engineers forward on turn 9 on turn 11 started the forward 4 inf companies and on turn 13 the KV-1(E)'s began moving. I shifted the arty to the german rear since their forward units were in disary. Sgt Jarnagin only added 2 kills this battle as I held his platoon in reserve but Sgt Tchaikovsky (all my tank commanders are named after Russian composers, chess players or really close friends) using terrian and smoke from OB mortars crept to within 8 hexes of dancing PZIII-J's waited till he was in cover and started popping them 1 or 2 a turn his platoon leader 2nd Lt Kamsky killed a few nosy stugs while the third KV-1(E) of Sgt "Bear" finished the dancers. German FJ and Sji squads supported by MG's and ATR's started coming out of wood work in mass, it was quite the melee on two of the objective areas for along while with my tanks unable to get there since my engineers were caught up in this fray (flamethrowers work well on inf in open. This german commander distained arty and used a large number of 81mm and 50mm mortars instead? KV-1(E)'s doing doughnuts in mortar pits make quite a mess!!!
Hans took the day off and his friends paid the price. I can hardly wait to get some Sturmoviks Uncle Joe gave me an easy one now a delay mission my infantry morale listing goes from 50 to 95 while the tanks have 1 55(new crew) and 7 in 80's 11 in 90's should get first 100 exp unit this fight if Hans does not find them and lay 500kg eggs.


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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[Grisha]

Mogami,

Remember in SPI when there would be times that your aircraft would actually spot nothing and just do a flyby? I have yet to see that happen here, but there are still a lot of games to go before I'm in Berlin

And, yes, I can't wait for the day when I see the word 'aircraft' in the Artillery section when buying troops.

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Smert' ili Pobeda!

[Charles22]

victorhauser: All philosophies, but mine, must be poo-pooed (he said in an eeeevil sneer). In your defense, however, I will say that I commonly play Gerry so much, and usually never past 42 into the campaign, before I end up starting all over again, for whatever reasons, that I don't experience much need for flak defense. I was of course objecting to their use on the basis of en masse "88s", because of their possible use in overwhelming role as AT guns. If you want to buy a kajillion 37mm flaks, more power to you. I, like you, won't let my troops get the daylights bombed out of them, but given that I have yet to see such overwhelming use of enemy air, I confine myself in core for campaigns, to 6 flak mounts, 2 mobile and 4 towed, with between 2-4 of these being 88s. I also will sometimes pick a particular tank or HT that has a AA gun, over another, to help a bit with the AA role.

That says nothing for the support I'll pick though. If I were facing the US, as Gerry, in '44, and it didn't give me a strike element for support, I would probably pick a platoon of 20mm/37mm flak in addition.

[mogami]

Well it's turn 7 and Hans has reapeared and he brought all his cousins,brothers and nephews with him. Instead of just 4 bombers a turn I have been visted by 6-8 from turn 3 on (Before I ever fired a shot) 3 KV's are gone (wipes tears) Sgt Tchaikovsky is dead part of the crew go out of tank and then were vaporized by next bomb. 11 out of 18 tanks have been attacked by stuka, or HE111's
I deployed 9 tanks on hills in front of my main postion with plan of reatreating them to hills behind infantry once german infantry got too close 2 of these nine are gone but they have destroyed many german halftracks and tanks my 3 forward observers have kept my arty on enemy infantry and everything according to plan in that regard.
my aa does not seem to be awake today. They have only brought down 6 AC so far and none before they unloaded. Does having a bomber land in flames on top of you have any in game results other then starting bon fire?
Charles22 you have my symphathy (has never known joy of being under constant air attack)


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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[Charles22]

Mogami: Actually I have had that feeling, in the older SP days, but back then even one plane getting through was quite devatating, particularly to tanks. SPWAW seems much more deadly against soft targets though. The aircraft getting cheaper in the latest version doesn't help matters much.

At the early stages of SPWAW, I used to pick air until I found it was totally ineffective, now I may not be picking it because it's too devastating, at least against infantry. I might pick a level bomber for a desparate defense in a weak zone somewhere, but certainly not on offensive missions (with the lone exception of perhaps trying to test effectiveness of 37mm Stuka AT guns).

[mogami]

Hi I am on battle number 8 and not one of my tanks has been killed by a land unit. All my tank losses (except 1 to mine) have been caused by aircraft. (along with about 100 squads of inf)

Battle number 10 now no tank losses in #9 have 4 out of 18 elite lost a tank already this fight (assualt) to a guess?....STUKA!!!
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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

[This message has been edited by Mogami (edited October 14, 2000).]

[mogami]

Hi, I'm digging the old material on air attack up.