Nukes in Turkey?

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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That second link is the Washington Examiner, not the Washington Post. I have no idea of the credentials of the Examiner.
It does seem to make it clear that leaving the nukes in Turkey is a political, symbolic gesture, saying that "Turkey is still a valued and trusted NATO ally". We'll see.

It's in Wikipedia. The story jibes with what I know of them.

The issue goes back to the question of nukes in Turkey. The author doesn't know they're there. Nobody on this forum does either. Anybody who DOES know doesn't say.
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AW1Steve
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by AW1Steve »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That second link is the Washington Examiner, not the Washington Post. I have no idea of the credentials of the Examiner.
It does seem to make it clear that leaving the nukes in Turkey is a political, symbolic gesture, saying that "Turkey is still a valued and trusted NATO ally". We'll see.

It's in Wikipedia. The story jibes with what I know of them.

The issue goes back to the question of nukes in Turkey. The author doesn't know they're there. Nobody on this forum does either. Anybody who DOES know doesn't say.

Does anyone really know anything? Could everything we know be a lie? He'll for all I know , we could be living in the matrix (no pun intended toward our sponsor of this forum). All I know , is what I read from the political and official statements issued by NATO and the US Department of defense. And that common sense says that if you have a weapon for the purpose of defense and deterrent, you really, kind of have to let your opponent know that it exists. And the US Government hasn't been good at lying to anyone (except it's voters and to itself) since world war 2.

While Iran, North Korea, China and Russia all have a history of the use of a strong bluff, the USA? Not so much.

As I said , these MK 61's are about as small and politically correct a weapon is likely to be built. Safer and more secure than a SADM (suit case nuke) , even smaller than the B-57 (general purpose weapon and Nuclear depth bomb that I'm familiar with....it has no disabling device). So it's relatively easy to move (via aircraft) but not too easy (not man portable) small (but better than a nuke "hand grenade" like the horrible Davy Crocket) and very easy to render useless. All-in-all, I find it a very reasonable story and one that I have little trouble in accepting. [:)]
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

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I might believe it too. But I don't know.

I spent three years on a nuclear-weapon-capable sub. I never saw one. I once saw reentry bodies on a "bus" when an A-weaps let me peek behind the curtain on a maintenance op. (He shouldn't have; I didn't have enough clearance.) But for all I know those bullets were full of candy, piñata-style.

The US never confirms or denies. Has been so since the 1950s. The only time I recall there was an official (sort of) confirm was when we took the tac nukes off the skimmers. ASROC. I believe the president confirmed himself. That wasn't an accident though; it was an official backhand message to the USSR.

FAS historically has had great sources. I read a lot of their stuff back in the 90s, and it agreed with stuff I knew first-hand. But they don't "know" where the nukes are. And where there may have been nukes in the past does not mean they're there today, or might not be back next week. It's a shell game.
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AW1Steve
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by AW1Steve »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I might believe it too. But I don't know.

I spent three years on a nuclear-weapon-capable sub. I never saw one. I once saw reentry bodies on a "bus" when an A-weaps let me peek behind the curtain on a maintenance op. (He shouldn't have; I didn't have enough clearance.) But for all I know those bullets were full of candy, piñata-style.

The US never confirms or denies. Has been so since the 1950s. The only time I recall there was an official (sort of) confirm was when we took the tac nukes off the skimmers. ASROC. I believe the president confirmed himself. That wasn't an accident though; it was an official backhand message to the USSR.

FAS historically has had great sources. I read a lot of their stuff back in the 90s, and it agreed with stuff I knew first-hand. But they don't "know" where the nukes are. And where there may have been nukes in the past does not mean they're there today, or might not be back next week. It's a shell game.
There you and I must differ, as I ALWAYS knew where the Nukes were in the Navy. Where ever there were armed Marines. And when ever you saw Marines in armored personnel carriers escorting trailers, you KNEW where the Nukes where. Whenever I was at Kings Bay , or Bangor WA , I knew EXACTLY where the nukes where. They sure as hell were NOT guarding the Admiral's crispy crème shipment! [:D]

The USAF have a particular security troop that does the same thing. The only other things they guard are flag officer an certain "specialized" aircraft (particularly certain boxes on those aircraft).


Besides , I'd much rather believe that they are storing mini nukes at a Long term friend and established base , then at a newly gained ally (who is a former enemy) at a bare bones base within waking distance of Russia. It's just the romantic in me. [:D]

By the way , I never carried actual nukes...but I for some incredibly stupid reason I was on a "load team", practicing with "shapes". For less than a week. As we were loading a "shape" into a plane in the hanger, the skipper dropped over to say hello. As he'd just started up the ladder to topside , he came to a complete freeze , and visibly cringed. I think it had something to do with the God-awful clang ringing throughout the hangar, reverberating off the metal walls. There was a whole new team assigned immediately , with us all being found other "collateral duties". But we could honestly say that we "dropped a nuke (shape). Unfortunately , we dropped it on the hangar floor. [X(] [:(][:D]
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Lecivius
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by Lecivius »

"Now that's funny, right there" [:D]
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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geofflambert
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by geofflambert »

I dunno, every time I see a gorn female I haven't seen before I start building a nest.

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BBfanboy
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

By the way , I never carried actual nukes...but I for some incredibly stupid reason I was on a "load team", practicing with "shapes". For less than a week. As we were loading a "shape" into a plane in the hanger, the skipper dropped over to say hello. As he'd just started up the ladder to topside , he came to a complete freeze , and visibly cringed. I think it had something to do with the God-awful clang ringing throughout the hangar, reverberating off the metal walls. There was a whole new team assigned immediately , with us all being found other "collateral duties". But we could honestly say that we "dropped a nuke (shape). Unfortunately , we dropped it on the hangar floor. [X(] [:(][:D]
[:D]

Sounds like a great way to terminate your participation in boring drills! Was it your idea to drop the "N-shape"?
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
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morganbj
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by morganbj »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Oh, those were Jupiter missiles in Turkey back in '62, not bombs.
I'm glad someone actually knows.

It wasn't nukes that were the issue, it was the delivery system.
Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.
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AW1Steve
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by AW1Steve »

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

By the way , I never carried actual nukes...but I for some incredibly stupid reason I was on a "load team", practicing with "shapes". For less than a week. As we were loading a "shape" into a plane in the hanger, the skipper dropped over to say hello. As he'd just started up the ladder to topside , he came to a complete freeze , and visibly cringed. I think it had something to do with the God-awful clang ringing throughout the hangar, reverberating off the metal walls. There was a whole new team assigned immediately , with us all being found other "collateral duties". But we could honestly say that we "dropped a nuke (shape). Unfortunately , we dropped it on the hangar floor. [X(] [:(][:D]
[:D]

Sounds like a great way to terminate your participation in boring drills! Was it your idea to drop the "N-shape"?


Heck no. I was a very young (20 year old) very junior (just made E-3/ AWAN) and extremely stupid individual. Which was the only reason I was there to begin with. As the only E-3 in the squadron every single work center , department and semi-organized Mob was trying to get me for their "skut work". NOBODY listened to me. Hell, even I didn't listen to me. [8|][X(][:(][:D]
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AW1Steve
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RE: Nukes in Turkey?

Post by AW1Steve »

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Oh, those were Jupiter missiles in Turkey back in '62, not bombs.
I'm glad someone actually knows.

It wasn't nukes that were the issue, it was the delivery system.

In this case actually it was the nukes. The Jupiter was a very obsolete system that was supposed to have been replaced already. The Russians were more put out by the concept than the actual weapon. Jupiter took a long time to fuel and ready before firing , and couldn't be fired from a silo. Like the Thor , and Atlas missiles , liquid fueled medium and short range missiles had a very low probability of survival. But the USSR considered their presence to be a bit of an insult. [:)]
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