The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[jwolf]

Can you park a surface force at Foochow in order to discourage enemy meddling by sea there?

[Canoerebel]

Sure. I've done so in the past and I'll do so again in the future.

I had eight Fletcher's guarding Foochow. Six of them went under while clashing with the two IJN combat TFs that moved into the East China Sea.

This is another of the endless Rocks.Papers.Scissors. situations in AE. To protect an airfield from bombardment, you have to have ships; the ships have to be strong enough to withstand what the enemy is likely to bring; the ships must be protected by strong CAP; the base must have enough supply for the airfield to function properly; and you have to constantly re-evaluate the situation and make adjustments, because the enemy can see exactly what's at that forward base and plan accordingly to deliver knockout blows that will overwhelm your defenses.

Going forward, the big airfields on Formosa are just as important as Foochow, especially the one at Taihoku. It's just as close to Tokyo and the major Home Island bases from there south. Providing proper security for Foochow and Taihoku will be paramount. John shifting KB up this way will complicate matters.

But it's an opportunity to seek and engage in decisive battle.

[MakeeLearn]

How are things looking and what's in the planning, from a pure Chinese point of view?

[Canoerebel]

The Chinese have been serving the same function since '42 - maintaining a strong MLR as far from the coast as possible. The objective was to keep John's main army in China as far from those coastal cities as possible. The objective has largely been completed now.

At some point in the not-too-distant future, the Japanese MLR in western China should collapse. As John gradually withdraws units to meet the coastal emergency, the Allies will be reinforcing from Indochina. These reinforcements and the proximity of big Allied airfields should result in a breakthrough. That won't happen in a fortnight, but it should happen within six to eight weeks.

[Lowpe]

Basic port defense for the allies goes something like this:

2 PT boat squadrons
1 Brooklyn/Fletcher Squadron threat level low or multiple small task forces (say 3 Fletchers each all set to low).
Some mines
Some cd guns
One Avenger squadron on night naval attack from safe runway with torpedoes and 80 exp pilots
Night naval search
half dozen subs set to absolute
Some fighters LRCAP the base or just CAP from the base

If you want to help your destroyers fight and preserve the base from bombarding IJN destroyers use more squadrons on night naval attack.

If you want to fight the incoming bombardment, run two North Carolina's and 8 Fletchers in a high numbered task force night after night.

[Lowpe]

I think you should assign one 4E beastie squadrons to night operations and be sending it out routinely so you start to master night strategic bombing. See what works, what doesn't, keep john guessing.

Raids like this are force multipliers as it makes Japan perform more clicks per turn for your investment of three clicks.

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Raids like this are force multipliers as it makes Japan perform more clicks per turn for your investment of three clicks.

So ... we have the air war, the sub war, the surface war, the ground war ... and now, the carpal tunnel war! [:D]

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Raids like this are force multipliers as it makes Japan perform more clicks per turn for your investment of three clicks.

So ... we have the air war, the sub war, the surface war, the ground war ... and now, the carpal tunnel war! [:D]

Carpal Tunnel Rat equipment...

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Basic port defense for the allies goes something like this:

2 PT boat squadrons
1 Brooklyn/Fletcher Squadron threat level low or multiple small task forces (say 3 Fletchers each all set to low).
Some mines
Some cd guns
One Avenger squadron on night naval attack from safe runway with torpedoes and 80 exp pilots
Night naval search
half dozen subs set to absolute
Some fighters LRCAP the base or just CAP from the base

If you want to help your destroyers fight and preserve the base from bombarding IJN destroyers use more squadrons on night naval attack.

If you want to fight the incoming bombardment, run two North Carolina's and 8 Fletchers in a high numbered task force night after night.

Nice theory, until you have 30 ports to guard.

[Canoerebel]

9/4/44

Peep Show II: Allied army on Formosa is monstrous - 3350 AV ashore with all kinds of support and supplies. Mostly these are experienced or elite units with '44 squads and equipment. The army will get underway day after tomorrow (5th Marine Div. needs another day to unload).

An IJA recon regiment crossed the river into Taichu from Kagi, committing seppuku but giving John good info on what's there.

Taichu port + naval support appears capable of replenishing BB main gun ammo, at least to some extent. If Allied bombardment TFs can simply repeatedly bombard John's stacks in the open terrain at Taihoku, Kagi and Takao, he'll be in a bad way.

I think the Allies may have the supplies, position, and weight of arms to assert complete control over this sector within a week if John doesn't do something radical to contest. His best chance is to deploy KB...but will he do so?

[Canoerebel]

9/4/44

KB & The DEI: At least for today, KB is loitering down near the DEI.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

9/4/44

Looking at this screenie, at your sub dispositions, I'm just stunned at what he lets you get away with. Air ASW from Okinawa or Shanghai and you'd be losing 2-3 subs a day either sunk or heavily damaged. I lost four sunk in the last two days in my Lokasenna game. His air ASW is blanketing, especially over shallow water.

Don't get into bad habits. [:)]

[ny59giants]

If John is transporting in troops, why don't you LRCAP the base to shoot them down?

[Canoerebel]

9/4/44

China and Indochina: Most of my air and naval assets are focused on Formosa, so I'm not punching hard in China and Indochina at the moment. But I'm satisfied that both theaters are taking shape and will be ready when the time comes.

[Canoerebel]

Moose: I put the subs there because Allied CAP poses a hazard to John's patrols and ASW, limiting their effectiveness. He has worked air ASW pretty hard up here. I'm constantly re-evaluating whether the presence there is worth it, but these are the guys that claimed CL Nagara a week ago.

Michael: LRCAP is in place.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Moose: I put the subs there because Allied CAP poses a hazard to John's patrols and ASW, limiting their effectiveness. He has worked air ASW pretty hard up here. I'm constantly re-evaluating whether the presence there is worth it, but these are the guys that claimed CL Nagara a week ago.

Michael: LRCAP is in place.

As far as I know, night search can't be intercepted by CAP. Not that night search spots subs often, but it does happen. Looking at the picture also, I'd be all over those subs "like white on rice." A couple Jake or Jill ASW squadrons to spot them (with careful arc control to avoid Taichu if need be because of the CAP you mentioned) and even just some roving MLs or SCs, or low-value E's once your surface forces aren't within 3-4 hexes... lots of dead subs. A fishing (perhaps whaling) expedition. Particularly outside Wenchow.

If you sent any surface forces to deal with them, it's risking LBA strikes. If you had CVs take care of them, it plops DL 10/10 on your CVs if they don't already have it AND lets me know as the IJN player what you're up to.

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Don't get into bad habits. [:)]

I feel a disturbance in the force.

[Canoerebel]

If John doesn't know where my CVs are he has vastly more issues than my subs.

Again, Rocks.Papers.Scissor. John has difficulty sending in surface ships because I have big airfields at Foochow and Taichu plus Death Star. He is careful about using air ASW because of CAP provided by those same assets. He has used air ASW to some good effect and he's employed a lot of MLs, many of which have been sunk. So he avoid these waters now, by and large, though two combat TFs chanced the waters a week ago, losing CL Nagara in the process.

On the other hand, I know these waters are highly dangerous to subs, but have assumed the risk because of their importance during this campaign. Yes I can lose subs, but it's worth it to have a deterrent of some worth while this battle is raging.

I think readers sometimes make assumptions based upon incomplete information. It's not like I'm blithely using subs there; and it's not like John hasn't countered their presence. He could probably do more; I could probably do more. But neither of us is oblivious.

[Bullwinkle58]

It's not the use or non-use. It's the density, the shallow water, and (I assume) lack of movement of the subs. He might not know how many you have there, but he could sure sink a bunch of them at fairly low risk. Mostly air ASW, and somewhat with dash-in, dash-out E patrols. CAP only sometimes bothers air ASW missions, especially if they're at 1000 ft.

[Canoerebel]

Nothing is as simple as it looks. Both of us have lost an incredible amount of patrol aircraft to enemy carriers, so we both have a shortage of platforms and probably lack in pilot quality a bit.

Right now, I'm losing 5-10 patrol aircraft every turn to KB CAP. It's unsustainable, and it's been happening for weeks, but to me it's worth it to know the exact location of John's carries. We're probably at the penultimate moment of the game, so expending subs and patrol aircraft and DDs is a worthwhile expense.

I know what you're saying, but if John started attending to my subs more carefully, then I'd move them pronto, as I've done before. From John's perspective, this may not be a hugely high priority.

I have similar sub groupings around Miri and around Boela - protected by LBA.

[Lokasenna]

I suppose if all of his ships are nowhere nearby, what's the point in hitting subs?

I'd still be doing it for VP purposes. Each sub is 10-11 VPs.