ships in baltic?

[IBender]

Would like some thoughts on this picture. As my son and I play more and more WIF we try with all our might to fight the other in creative ways. Recently we took to deploying as many french ships in the west coast of france and when war occurs the french player moves those ships into Baltic. This of course destroys the german 3 convoys in the Baltic and Even with Denmark conquered and the turn ending, those ships remain in the baltic for another turn ...they just move into a lower box.

Basically I am wondering what people think of this move? I dont recall ever seeing it in an AAR. Yes the allies lose the ships, but geez this is an annoying event for the germans.

Thanks,

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Azorn01

Would like some thoughts on this picture. As my son and I play more and more WIF we try with all our might to fight the other in creative ways. Recently we took to deploying as many french ships in the west coast of france and when war occurs the french player moves those ships into Baltic. This of course destroys the german 3 convoys in the Baltic and Even with Denmark conquered and the turn ending, those ships remain in the baltic for another turn ...they just move into a lower box.

Basically I am wondering what people think of this move? I dont recall ever seeing it in an AAR. Yes the allies lose the ships, but geez this is an annoying event for the germans.

Thanks,

It sounds like Poland wasn't conquered. That would give the French navy the ability to return to base in Poland. Even if Denmark was conquered, the French could return to base in Denmark if a Danish port were still controlled by Denmark.

Note that the Return to Base phase happens before Conquest, so the Axis would have to take Copenhagen and also control all the ports on the Baltic at the Return to Base in order to get the French navy to be destroyed during the RTB phase.

Losing the French navy would not be good.[:-] That makes the Brits responsible for controlling the North Sea and the Med (2 or 3 sea areas) plus putting defending naval units out to protect their convoys in the Bay of Biscay, Cape St. Vincent and points south. All that while getting land units over to help hold Belgium and France (and Netherlands too?). Plus there is Gibraltar, Malta, and Egypt (Suez).

While the French navy doesn't do much in most games, its mere presence discourages adventures by the Italian navy. Without the French navy, the Italians can seriously hurt the Brits in the Med (one good naval search die rolls) and not fear retaliation for their daring.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I forgot to mention, Germany can afford to lose 3 convoys in the Baltic. The loss of 3 Production Points too, while painful, would not be a deal breaker.

Another defense for Germany is to send is Naval Air unit out to sit with the convoys. That way, even with bad search die rolls for the Axis, the French would have to spend 4 surprise points to force the Surface combat.

[jboldt007]

In my very VERY limited experience I've been amazed at how critical the survival of French fleet seems to be for the CW to be able to contain the Italian navy - as well the French have nifty bases to help in the defence of the Atlantic, and they have oil for refuelling...

[ashkpa]

I will sent 1 or 2 FR CAs to the Baltic at times. Usually during the surprise impulse. Annoying to the Germans if it works, but not critical. I would not send much more for the reasons others have stated. Also depends if I think the Germans are heading west quickly. If so, I want the naval moves to get the FR African units back to France.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: ashkpa

I will sent 1 or 2 FR CAs to the Baltic at times. Usually during the surprise impulse. Annoying to the Germans if it works, but not critical. I would not send much more for the reasons others have stated. Also depends if I think the Germans are heading west quickly. If so, I want the naval moves to get the FR African units back to France.

For getting the African units over to France, I will place French HQ near Marseilles and use it to reorganize the French transport so it can bring back a second unit during the first turn. That takes 2 Combined Actions though.

[paulderynck]

Usually the Germans will take all the Allied ports on the Baltic before the first turn ends and so usually any Allied naval units in the Baltic die due to inability to return to base.

[Joseignacio]

Too expensive. Although the battleships you shouldn't take as an allied player, because they mean a penalization when rolling for minor countries and territories of France which may become Free France or Vichy, the many French cruisers are invaluable, not so much IMO for any battle at the Med or elsewhere, because cruisers are only cannon fodder, but for escorting british convoys. The CW player who knows his role never has enough of these.

Wouldn't be bad if you do it with battleships only...

[Courtenay]

I will almost always send one or two bad French cruisers to the Baltic on the surprise impulse, fully expecting to lose them. Nothing more. The main point of the operation is not the 3 CPs; Germany can easily afford those. The point is to force the Germans to have to move naval units at some point, meaning that Germany will have to take a combined at some point. Everything the Allies do early should be to try and slow the Axis down.

I have seen some players send the French sub. I find that far to valuable a unit to lose. Frequently later in the game that sub will be the only unit that can initiate a sub combat somewhere, because the other Allies are taking land actions.

[Dabrion]

From my experience.. I would loose the BBs and safe the CA for the BoA. The Vichy role penalty states: "Subtract 2 from each die roll if any on-map French CVs or BBs are not currently in a Metropolitan French port." So it applies if you try to save the BBs, not if you loose them in the Baltic. CA are valuable ASW points!