Defense of the Soviet Union begins ONE hex west of Pskov

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Hex # 8. Find digging Divisions to start digging entrenchments. Higher the construction value the better. Keep in mind you will need good quality units for the coming defense since we are beginning the defense of the Soviet union here. Our goal is to delay by forcing the Germans into a grinding war or force the Germans to find a weaker spot somewhere else. Both of these options the Germans take are a win win scenario. (NOTE**** You will see me put units in clear terrain all the time in my defense. Yes the conventional wisdom is to defend in swamps, trees etc. for higher combat value. But if you stop and think about it it is easy for Germans to move through open terrain even in ZOC's. So I put units in open terrain to build forts and they retreat to a better defense value hex when they retreat. Just something stupid I do in my games)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Hex #9 (brown color). Any easy hex to defend. Good quality Division and try and have over a 18+ combat value in the City. It is a key defense hex. (hex is difficult to attack by Germany on the first turn so I lowered the combat value of the city to 18 instead of the orginal 28 I had there)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Hex #10 (three hexes) 4th Airborne goes in these 3 hexes. One brigade each hex. These little F'rs don't route when attacked by a hasty attack (often)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Hex #9 purple color (sorry about this error of two nines) This hex is defended by the security unit from the island. You will transport to the closet port, disembark, then load onto a train and end in this hex. It is truly a worthless speed bump everything helps.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Hex # 11. Fill out all these spots with security units. Just speed bumps at best.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Hex #12. Use a division for each hex from 21st mech Corps. (just a side note in later turns that any Armor or Mot unit needs to be saved from being surrounded for their truck content. Only put these units in front line if you are pretty certain these units will not get surrounded. If in doubt put them in the 3rd or 4th line of defense. Lose them at your own pearl)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Hex #13, multiple hexes. More digging hexes. Looking for good quality units with Good Morale and good rifle squad experience in these hexes with good construction values.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Here is the final setup in this one game for the 1st turn with Air bases in place and fully loaded. The Northern Airbases will be in place turn 2. You may not have enough units to fill out all the spots but the main effort is to delay/stop the Germans at Pskov to buy time to continue to build the line east each turn.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Defense of the One hex west of Pskov on turn two in the same game. Please note that Air flew support. If you had sent your air to the Reserve as the Russian you probably would have lost this hex. You have to have air in your key sectors you are defending.

[galex]

A great post. have learned a LOT from your work. tks bro.

[Stelteck]

Very interesting post thank you. Pskov area looks really well protected.

It is interesting because in my game against you, i tried to built a strong defense at Pskov too. And you did not even sent a panzer against it.

Maybe you could give me some clue of what should i have done ? How this strategy works if Pskov is bypasses. (Like you did as german).

Forgive me for posting 3 screens of what happened, since this thread is not only an AAR, but also a strategic discussion :



Then (Here Pskov have not been attacked yet !!) :



At this point, i had to remove troops from Pskov to defend elsewhere but it was too late and the retreat did not go well. Pskov position was not sustenable anymore.

[galex]

I think HardLuck tend to use 4th pzr group in the center the make sure a large pocket can be done in T4~T5.And use the 2nd Pzr Group come from south by train on T5~T6 to attack pskov line.
This strategy makes sense because the supply line in the north is the shortest and Axis have sufficent time to take Linningrad.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: galex

A great post. have learned a LOT from your work. tks bro.

I am not finished yet but you are welcome. This may not work for everyone and lots wont agree with it. That is ok since this breeds thinking. More to come soon.

[BrianG]

your top experience units shown above seem to have a 20% max toe?

[Dinglir]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Defense of the One hex west of Pskov on turn two in the same game. Please note that Air flew support. If you had sent your air to the Reserve as the Russian you probably would have lost this hex. You have to have air in your key sectors you are defending.

I simply can not imagine what complete imbecile would have played the Germans that way.[:)]

Notice also the many combats fought before that one HardLuck links to. If those pesky NKVD's hadn't been there (or had routed somewhat earlier), I would have had more Panzers available for the final attack, and then the hex would have probably fallen (I think).

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Very interesting post thank you. Pskov area looks really well protected.

It is interesting because in my game against you, i tried to built a strong defense at Pskov too. And you did not even sent a panzer against it.

Maybe you could give me some clue of what should i have done ? How this strategy works if Pskov is bypasses. (Like you did as german).

Forgive me for posting 3 screens of what happened, since this thread is not only an AAR, but also a strategic discussion :

I can not go over the Strategic discussion of my strategy yet. I still have games in the early stages and if this was known could throw off my movement of units ;-} Please wait until my games get to turn 10ish + and I will give you a map of my "must hold", delay, and get the hell out of dodge areas on a strategic map.

I didn't bypass your Pskov area. I saw an opportunity and took it in a later turn(plus it was part of my strategy to pull units away from this area. It all lies in your defense.


Stelteck what I'm about to comment on is not an attack on you. I'm telling you from the German side of view why this is "not" a very strong defense nor well protected area.

1st you have "no" defense in depth. Blow away a few frontal units and it is off to the races for an encirclement.

2nd (see pink area I circled on your snapshot below) You are defending to get the greatest defense value but not defending the open areas that a German moves through (which is good but not the best thing in my opinion. As I said earlier in this post, I defend the clear terrain hexes to force Germans to attack those hexes or move around them in rough terrain. It cuts on the German movement since most times Germans don't want to go through terrain worse than Open. I therefore deny it from them) You are letting Germans get by in clear terrain even with a ZOC into a clear terrain the Germans will just parade through or just move the Soviet unit in defensive terrain hex (i.e. the swamp). Which then opens up more movement routes for the Germans.

3rd your units are fatigued from movement that are further east of Pskov making them even easier to attack. You must have to plan ahead of time and plant key defensive units in key places a turn or two in advance. Suspect key areas that a German will attack in and put units there. Will this always work, no. But you have to be prepared for it with those units in key hexes

4th why do you have refit turned on on units that don't need it? This is a waste in my opinion and even worse on tank/Mot units (unless those tank/mots units are close to full strength since they start to disband turn 12ish)

5th where are your units in "reserve" mode??????? This is more than likely a by product of number 3 above. As a Soviet you have to set up your defensive units turn(s) in advance and have to have units in reserve mode. You need to pay attention to the morale and experience of the rifle squads in the division. You have to get good leaders in key places. Stop building support units and upgrade your command structure. You have plenty of support units for the first 10 turns as is in my opinion.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: BrianG

your top experience units shown above seem to have a 20% max toe?

I set all TOE at the end of turn one for the North units to 100%. At the beginning for turn 2 the 1st thing I do is again turn all TOE to 20% because of all the new Divisions that come online for the Soviets. I then painstakingly reapply the max TOE to the Northern units to 100% TOE. I pretty much do this until turn 6-8 depending on who I am playing and the pressure on a front. I then place in refit key units that may get attacked in the upcoming turns. Please note that you need to do the Support units to 100% on the 1st turn too for the Northern HQ's.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Defense of the One hex west of Pskov on turn two in the same game. Please note that Air flew support. If you had sent your air to the Reserve as the Russian you probably would have lost this hex. You have to have air in your key sectors you are defending.

I simply can not imagine what complete imbecile would have played the Germans that way.[:)]

Notice also the many combats fought before that one HardLuck links to. If those pesky NKVD's hadn't been there (or had routed somewhat earlier), I would have had more Panzers available for the final attack, and then the hex would have probably fallen (I think).

Stop being so hard on yourself Dinglir. You did just fine. I remember Chaos45 saying in old posts that this game is all about making the Germans expend MP"s. Those NKVD units are there for just that, a delaying force for MP's and fatiguing the Germans. Granted it isnt much but seems to be enough. Can it be circumvented? Yes that it is known it can. I really think I'm going to upgrade the defense value of that hex from a minimum of 22 to a higher value (minimum of 28) I used in my latest game. (see below picture)

But yes you would have probably have taken it but I have no love affair of holding that hex. It is there just for a speed bump since it already starts as a level 2 fort and is the Hinge that the rest of the defense of the Soviet Union begins in my opinion (there is no Stalin or Hitler edict of no retreat. Although I do have specific zones I do on the Map)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Another side note here. If you don't understand how units retreat in their priority I implore you to study this intensely as a Soviet. Granted it isn't always the same but the majority of the time certain retreat paths are taken over other retreat paths. Learn it, love it, live it.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

Did you see my Air Mail message to you where I moved the U2s to in our game? Just in case you missed it here is a snapshot with the word "U2" and a down arrow pointing to the U2 factories hex ;-P Didn't want you to be disappointed in me (also note the Division unit with a RED interior color. I put units in red when their Morale & rifle squads experience are over 45. This way I know which units are key in saving and try not get them surrounded since most Soviet division sux early game. I also mark units with 4+ wins with an interior lime color to signify the required wins or close to getting guards status)