Islands of Destiny: RA 5.0 Japanese Side

[John 3rd]

There is a ton of wisdom in your above Post. As said many times in the AAR, I feel like a Newbie at this point. EVERYTHING is an experiment presently and I have learned much towards the next game. Feel like a complete idiot at this point in playing the end game...

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Oops, too late.

Ningpo is of more tactical import than Okinawa. You are in deep trouble -- auto loss on Jan 1, 1945 just arrived on your doorstep. [:(] EDIT: That is not to say this is will happen, you have lots of tools left...but the odds of it happening have greatly increased.

Sorry to see the Tone go down, one of my absolute favorite ships.[:(]

You are almost always better off only using one squadron to naval attack and having everything else escort it, than you are flying in several naval attack squadrons. Unless of course you are making the big attack...there are exceptions of course, but with a deathstar around...

This is easy to say and very difficult to do with all the demands on your fighters and bombers and runways and supplies and aviation support.

What is the condition of your Night Fighter squadrons and what are the pools like. If there are any planes worth spending supplies on at this late date, it is making the Dinah NF and the Zero NF. Not that they are any good, but rather that it allows several recon squadrons to convert to NF planes including the largest possible NF squadron (I think). In the case of the Zero, it will allow you to resize some of those pitiful size 18 Irving squadrons to say 27. You should be able to field some 20-21 NF squadrons.

Since you let your TOE upgrades slip, I fear you have not been aggressive at converting squadrons to NF models.

Btw, you can sort all ground units and show every unit that needs a toe upgrade very easily from the ground unit screen.

My NF pools are well over 150 planes each and I just got that upgraded version of one of those two planes. Have also converted 4-6 Fighter units over to NF. They seem to be holding up OK for the moment. I know the Night Bombing will only get FAR WORSE...

[John 3rd]

Michael and I just chatted for about 45 minutes on the phone.

School starts for my 8th and 6th Grade Sons on Monday. Paula goes back to work for the School District at the same time.

This translates to time HOME and--most importantly--ALONE!

It is time to get back to serious Mod work on all four Mods and, perhaps, we can look at a new one.

Michael has minor surgery coming up in a couple of weeks and we plan to tag team the Mod Work at that point.

For those weeks leading up to his surgery, I will stay off of Mod working and, instead focus on getting an extra turn per day in with Dan. Want to get to 1945. It is as simple as that. These lessons that are being learned right now really are going to help with the Mod work as well...

Am going to copy this Post onto the Mod Design Thread.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

My goodness, those are huge patrol areas! For the Iboats...

You have to hold Ningpo...if he takes that base you are in deep trouble.

Ahhhhh....well...

I did large areas so he cannot easily kill the I-Boats.

I never use more than one day's movement allowance for patrols. I see the merit in your thinking here.[&o] But with aggressive sub leaders and reaction of 1 the patrol length might not matter.

Ningpo...live and learn.

This game is very odd in the end. There are so many different ways that the Allies can beat Japan, and Japan has to protect against them all...often starting on Dec 7th, 1941. You have to plan your late fighter r&d, your nf r&d, your base forts and runway builds etc., and not against anyone possible Allied strategy but a host of strategies.

You can do everything right, except for one area, and you can bet your last dollar the Allies will find the one area you neglected and use it against you. Happens every time to Japan...as Japan is not forgiving in any way shape or form.

The Allies on the other hand can stumble from one disaster to the next and still win the game in 1945.

Yep, I prefer to play the Allies but firmly believe that the victory conditions for the Allies should be much more difficult. But one of the hardest things to do is play balance a monster campaign such as this. It is why I pay little attention to VP and don't really factor it in. I play for the fun of it and pretty much will know who won or lost when the dust settles. I really think that the Allies need to be sitting in Tokyo by 1/46 to have anything but a draw.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Michael and I just chatted for about 45 minutes on the phone.

School starts for my 8th and 6th Grade Sons on Monday. Paula goes back to work for the School District at the same time.

This translates to time HOME and--most importantly--ALONE!

It is time to get back to serious Mod work on all four Mods and, perhaps, we can look at a new one.

Michael has minor surgery coming up in a couple of weeks and we plan to tag team the Mod Work at that point.

For those weeks leading up to his surgery, I will stay off of Mod working and, instead focus on getting an extra turn per day in with Dan. Want to get to 1945. It is as simple as that. These lessons that are being learned right now really are going to help with the Mod work as well...

Am going to copy this Post onto the Mod Design Thread.

After going pretty deep, what if any tweaking would you like to do to this mod? Thinking of trying it next time.

[John 3rd]

The Mods that I recommend are Between the Storms due to lots of extras for both sides due to tweaking the Treaties at Washington and London.

RA is excellent for working with changes done only in the immediate years before the war and then going through the war.

Have started brainstorming in the RA/BTS Mod Thread over in Development.

[Aurorus]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yep, I prefer to play the Allies but firmly believe that the victory conditions for the Allies should be much more difficult. But one of the hardest things to do is play balance a monster campaign such as this. It is why I pay little attention to VP and don't really factor it in. I play for the fun of it and pretty much will know who won or lost when the dust settles. I really think that the Allies need to be sitting in Tokyo by 1/46 to have anything but a draw.

I think that the VP system is pretty well-balanced for the scale of the game. Could it be better? Certainly, but only some minor tweaks are required, not wholesale changes. I think fewer VPs for strategic bombing, for example, would be the only change that I would endorse.

If you do not play for VPs, however, you cannot claim to win a victory based on VPs. Without VPs and the possibility of Japanese auto-victory, there is no incentive for the allies to do anything in 1942, except defend Australia and India on the ground. This ensures that the allies will have sufficient surface assets and naval air assets to make significant advances in late 1943. Also, without the incentive of auto-victory, Japan lacks any real purpose after the initial conquest phase. This can result in poor Japanese play and a boring game: in which Japan merely fortifies territories, stockpiles supplies, and shuttles resources and oil around the empire for 18 months. It also results, I think, in a skewed set of Japanese objectives: such as trying to destroy the whole Chinese army (which is worth 1/4 as many VPs as other allied ground units)

It is certainly more difficult to play Japan than the allies, mostly because the Japanese economy is difficult to manage and comprehend and because of the limitations that supply and fuel place upon Japan's activities. When playing for VPs and with Japanese auto-victory as a real threat, the game is not so simple for the allies, who must often fight on unfavorable terms in 1942 and suffer disproportionate losses in an attempt to maintain a VP ratio below 3:1.

[JohnDillworth]

VP's seem about right for strategic bombing. The trick was to not let the Allies get withing B-29 range. As in real life, once that happens, the jig is up. I have read interviews with Japanese officers after the war and when asked when they knew the war was lost they all mentioned when the Marianas fell. Took the Allies a couple of months to fort out the bugs in their bombing program (and in the B-29, which they never did quite work out), but once locked in on night , low level raids it was game over. Can you imagine the havoc if the B-29's didn't have such a lousy service rating?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
The Allies on the other hand can stumble from one disaster to the next and still win the game in 1945.

Yup. The Allied surfeit of arms is all-forgiving at this stage.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: crsutton



Yep, I prefer to play the Allies but firmly believe that the victory conditions for the Allies should be much more difficult.

Play Lokasenna in Scenario 2. [:)]

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

VP's seem about right for strategic bombing. The trick was to not let the Allies get withing B-29 range. As in real life, once that happens, the jig is up. I have read interviews with Japanese officers after the war and when asked when they knew the war was lost they all mentioned when the Marianas fell. Took the Allies a couple of months to fort out the bugs in their bombing program (and in the B-29, which they never did quite work out), but once locked in on night , low level raids it was game over. Can you imagine the havoc if the B-29's didn't have such a lousy service rating?

Speaking of VPs. Do all planes count the same? I mean, does a Kate count as much as a Betty or an Emily? Sounds stupid to ask but I don't think I really know the answer...

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

VP's seem about right for strategic bombing. The trick was to not let the Allies get withing B-29 range. As in real life, once that happens, the jig is up. I have read interviews with Japanese officers after the war and when asked when they knew the war was lost they all mentioned when the Marianas fell. Took the Allies a couple of months to fort out the bugs in their bombing program (and in the B-29, which they never did quite work out), but once locked in on night , low level raids it was game over. Can you imagine the havoc if the B-29's didn't have such a lousy service rating?

Speaking of VPs. Do all planes count the same? I mean, does a Kate count as much as a Betty or an Emily? Sounds stupid to ask but I don't think I really know the answer...

Allied heavy bombers are worth 2 points but I believe all other aircraft are 1.

[John 3rd]

Damn...I am a sore human being who may need traction tomorrow morning. We selected 1 1/2 tons of rock today to use as our waterfall's facing. My eldest and I placed the stones to make alovely effect and we HOPE the water flows tomorrow. That is if I can stand and move...

Sucks getting older gang. I know a bunch of you feel the same way!

[palioboy2]

It sucks getting older. It also sucks when you are at a point where you are with a girl you love but not sure if you should continue on or break it off before you marry her.

[Bif1961]

I would like to see airplanes VPs count based on the number of engines that plane has. Some nations counted victories based on the number of engines. Also I would like to see a scenario that has or allows he Japanese not to attack any American areas and American cannot enter the war, until there is enough accidental VPs that come from a search plane being shot down or sub accidentally attacked and sunk. It was going that way with the Germans and in the end we didn't declare war on Germany they declared war on us. So say on 7 December, 1941 Japan gets an allowance of 500 accidental points before America activates and every month is reduced by 100 VPs until finally that threshold is crossed and a notice would be given that the American Congress Declares war on the empire of Japan and it's allies. However until that happens the America forces cannot take offensive operations but can exercise freedom of navigation in international waters and reinforce any of it's holdings and of course continue it's Lend-Lease activities. This scenario would be historically accurate given the isolationist views of the American populace and the political reality of watching America's historic Allies being destroyed by their new growing Pacific threat. I have no idea if this is doable unless by agreement between opponents and with Fog of War the exact moment that the threshold is crossed might not be clear until the actual "Declaration of War" is signed message appears. Which would happen on the Allied phase and thereby giving them a chance to act on it first. Both sides would see the count down knowing eventually it would happen and of course Japan could attack American forces/bases at any time causing the amount of damage to activate it.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

VP's seem about right for strategic bombing. The trick was to not let the Allies get withing B-29 range. As in real life, once that happens, the jig is up. I have read interviews with Japanese officers after the war and when asked when they knew the war was lost they all mentioned when the Marianas fell. Took the Allies a couple of months to fort out the bugs in their bombing program (and in the B-29, which they never did quite work out), but once locked in on night , low level raids it was game over. Can you imagine the havoc if the B-29's didn't have such a lousy service rating?

Speaking of VPs. Do all planes count the same? I mean, does a Kate count as much as a Betty or an Emily? Sounds stupid to ask but I don't think I really know the answer...

Allied heavy bombers are worth 2 points but I believe all other aircraft are 1.

correct as I know it ...

[John 3rd]

I like the 1 VP/Engine Rule.

Long day here. Have the turn sitting in my In Box but am dragging so much I am scared to think to even open it.

Every turn takes 35-45 minutes just to WATCH the turn then add another 45-60 minutes to DO the turn. Is fairly daunting to know that the moment you start the turn it is a two hour commitment. Dan has that kind of time and I don't! This will begin to change now that school is starting.

[Capt. Harlock]

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

I would like to see airplanes VPs count based on the number of engines that plane has. Some nations counted victories based on the number of engines. Also I would like to see a scenario that has or allows he Japanese not to attack any American areas and American cannot enter the war, until there is enough accidental VPs that come from a search plane being shot down or sub accidentally attacked and sunk. It was going that way with the Germans and in the end we didn't declare war on Germany they declared war on us. So say on 7 December, 1941 Japan gets an allowance of 500 accidental points before America activates and every month is reduced by 100 VPs until finally that threshold is crossed and a notice would be given that the American Congress Declares war on the empire of Japan and it's allies. However until that happens the America forces cannot take offensive operations but can exercise freedom of navigation in international waters and reinforce any of it's holdings and of course continue it's Lend-Lease activities. This scenario would be historically accurate given the isolationist views of the American populace and the political reality of watching America's historic Allies being destroyed by their new growing Pacific threat. I have no idea if this is doable unless by agreement between opponents and with Fog of War the exact moment that the threshold is crossed might not be clear until the actual "Declaration of War" is signed message appears. Which would happen on the Allied phase and thereby giving them a chance to act on it first. Both sides would see the count down knowing eventually it would happen and of course Japan could attack American forces/bases at any time causing the amount of damage to activate it.

It's an interesting idea, but not quite historically accurate. For one thing, Roosevelt had given "shoot on sight" orders to the USN destroyers concerning the U-Boats. So, we were actually at war with Nazi Germany in all but name weeks before Pearl Harbor. Second, the American populace was generally isolationist about Europe, but they were outraged about the atrocities Imperial Japan was committing in China. A Japanese invasion of the Netherlands East Indies (vital if Japan was not to run out of oil) would very likely have triggered an American declaration of war. Granted, there would have been considerably less popular support for the massive mobilization of American industry and manpower.

At the absolute minimum, if Japan invades the NEI, the U.S. should be allowed to send supplies and aircraft.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yep, I prefer to play the Allies but firmly believe that the victory conditions for the Allies should be much more difficult. But one of the hardest things to do is play balance a monster campaign such as this. It is why I pay little attention to VP and don't really factor it in. I play for the fun of it and pretty much will know who won or lost when the dust settles. I really think that the Allies need to be sitting in Tokyo by 1/46 to have anything but a draw.

I think that the VP system is pretty well-balanced for the scale of the game. Could it be better? Certainly, but only some minor tweaks are required, not wholesale changes. I think fewer VPs for strategic bombing, for example, would be the only change that I would endorse.

If you do not play for VPs, however, you cannot claim to win a victory based on VPs. Without VPs and the possibility of Japanese auto-victory, there is no incentive for the allies to do anything in 1942, except defend Australia and India on the ground. This ensures that the allies will have sufficient surface assets and naval air assets to make significant advances in late 1943. Also, without the incentive of auto-victory, Japan lacks any real purpose after the initial conquest phase. This can result in poor Japanese play and a boring game: in which Japan merely fortifies territories, stockpiles supplies, and shuttles resources and oil around the empire for 18 months. It also results, I think, in a skewed set of Japanese objectives: such as trying to destroy the whole Chinese army (which is worth 1/4 as many VPs as other allied ground units)

It is certainly more difficult to play Japan than the allies, mostly because the Japanese economy is difficult to manage and comprehend and because of the limitations that supply and fuel place upon Japan's activities. When playing for VPs and with Japanese auto-victory as a real threat, the game is not so simple for the allies, who must often fight on unfavorable terms in 1942 and suffer disproportionate losses in an attempt to maintain a VP ratio below 3:1.

No, auto victory is a horrible design. Most Japanese drives for auto-victory between matched players fail, and then 90% of those game end with a resignation or the Japanese player disappearing after 1/43. I have seen it happen too many times on this forum. I am pretty confident that if a player goes AV on me that I am going to whip him and then see the empire collapse quickly thereafter. Thing is, if the Japanese player is going for auto victory, then they must do things that will destroy any other sort of plan for a lasting game. It is pretty much an all or nothing gambit. When I commit to play a campaign, I expect to go long and expect my opponent to do the same. The game should be designed to follow roughly a historical pattern with some liberal variations. But I want it to be "sort" of a simulation. If my opponent is going to try a bunch of hokey crap and then bail when it does not work, I need to know in advance. We got World of Warships for the fantasy stuff.

Victory points are not easily balanced. It is just impossible to properly play test a game of this size to determine if the game is balanced at the end. It would take years to test and thousands of man hours.

[John 3rd]

I don't believe in auto-victory. I'll surrender when it is clear that the EMPIRE is done.