What happens to British units in France if France surrenders?

[OxfordGuy3]

What happens to British units in France if France surrenders, but are not in Vichy territory? Are they destroyed, or do they go back into the production queue? I couldn't find information about this in the manual, but I may have missed it. Thanks

[OxfordGuy3]

Or does it depend on their supply level?

[nnason]

Brits stay alive wherever they are. Area around them stays Allied. If areas (port/city) have supply then they are supplied. If they have a port then they can withdraw or they can capture port but remember captered ports may not be at 5 level and able to be used that turn. So best to have at least one brit next to a port so BEF can escape. Note this also applies to any country such as Italy.

[OxfordGuy3]

Thanks, that's helpful. Out of interest, what happens if there are any British units in Vichy territory? What happens to them?

[nnason]

I haven't had that situation happen yet.

[taffjones]

Hi Oxford guy
In a multi-player game I had British units in Vichy area when France surrendered and they were destroyed

[geordietaf]

But if France surrenders (no Vichy) they survive and though the Vichy territories are Axis controlled there are no defenders and they can be quickly mopped up.

[OxfordGuy3]

Do British air units still "occupy" the city/port that their located in, or only land units in 1.08?

[nnason]

I very much doubt that Brit units would have in real life been destroyed if they had been in Vichy France when it was enacted. More like they would have been sent home without their heavy weapons like Dunkirk. The brits never would have just vanished at they very minimum they would have fought their way to a port.

[geordietaf]

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

Do British air units still "occupy" the city/port that their located in, or only land units in 1.08?

In my example, air units survive too

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: nnason

I very much doubt that Brit units would have in real life been destroyed if they had been in Vichy France when it was enacted. More like they would have been sent home without their heavy weapons like Dunkirk. The brits never would have just vanished at they very minimum they would have fought their way to a port.

Actually they would have been interned in VF. They most definitely would not have been sent home.

[nnason]

I agree if they march into a neutral country but when one becomes neutral under them and they are still combat ready instead of being at Dunkirk, I think they would have fought their way out. Interesting discussion one for which we will never know the answer.

[Numdydar]

The British would not have wanted to start hostilities against VF in mid-1940. That would have allowed the French Fleet to fall into German/Italian hands intact. That was to be avoided at all costs. So any British troops 'caught' in VF after the surrender of France would have been instructed to lay down arms and be interned.

This is why the BEF never 'strayed' far from the coast. Especially as things went bad for the Allies.

[Leadwieght]

Hi Nnason,

I agree that it stretches credulity to think that a substantial British army in French North Africa, say, would simply lay down its arms and go into internment camps because the French government had surrendered. Churchill would never have countenanced it.

In the game, I think the British surrender in Vichy territory is a game-balancing rule. Without it, it would be too easy for the British to park cheap units in Tunis, Oran, and/or Algiers just before French surrender and essentially stymie any German campaign against Egypt.

LW

[geordietaf]

The UK did in fact invade and occupy Syria in June/July 41 (Op Exporter) to close the back door into Egypt.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

The British would not have wanted to start hostilities against VF in mid-1940. That would have allowed the French Fleet to fall into German/Italian hands intact. That was to be avoided at all costs. So any British troops 'caught' in VF after the surrender of France would have been instructed to lay down arms and be interned.

This is why the BEF never 'strayed' far from the coast. Especially as things went bad for the Allies.

warspite1

I don't want to comment on what would happen if British units were in Vichy, but I want to pick up on the point in bold.

I think Operation Catapult (and other ports) in July 1940, and Operation Menace in September 1940 and British attitudes to Vichy France generally (restrictions on shipping freedoms) show that not upsetting Vichy was not exactly top of the British priority list.

[nnason]

well all conjecture or history. Some history IO didn't know. Thanks.