Playing the Dark Side – Question on HR’s

[AcePylut]

So here’s my question, I’ve decided to play a game against the AI as the Japs to try and figure out this economy business so that if I do go PBEM as the Evil Empire, I won’t run out of everything in June of ’42.

My question, for now, boils down to this:

The Japanese start with ~11k AV in Manchuria or so, of which 8k is required to prevent Soviet Activation. That leaves around 3k raw AV in Tanks and Infantry, and a ton of arty, HQ, Eng, etc. troops that could be pulled from Manchuko and/or Korea and sent to China to assist with the defeat of the Chinese.

One of the common HR’s is that you “must pay PP to cross borders”. Does this mean that if I have a unit, in Manchuko, that is subordinate to the Manchuko HQ, I must pay PP to send that unit to China? Likewise, if I have a unit that is subordinate to the 4th Army HQ (for example) in Manchucko, must I pay PP to send that unit into China?

I tend to think that it’s probably ok to send a unit in the 4th Army to China, but not a unit that’s part of the Manchuko HQ to China.

(I’m at work and as such don’t remember the exact names of the HQ’s, but I hope you get the point. If the 4th HQ isn’t in Manchuko, then I’m wrong on the “4th”, but I know there are other “non-Manchuko” HQ’s in Manchuko).

[Chickenboy]

Right. The "PP payment" refers to re-HQing a unit to an entirely unrestricted command. The "retail" way.

Now, against the AI all bets are off, as I cannot imagine that the Allied AI distinguishes carefully between theater limitations of its units.

[AcePylut]

I’m pretending I’m playing against a real person, and as such, don’t want to steamroll China with troops I wouldn’t have available in a PBEM.

So, to confirm since I need everything confirmed twice…. if a 4th Army INF unit (assume the 4th Army HQ and its subordinates are restricted) starts the game in Manchuria, I can’t bring it into China until I PP’ed it to an unrestricted HQ.


Also, paying PP to have the 4th Army HQ become an unrestricted command (thus freeing up all of it's subordinates at the price of a HQ change) is extremely gamey and not done.... correct?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I’m pretending I’m playing against a real person, and as such, don’t want to steamroll China with troops I wouldn’t have available in a PBEM.

So, to confirm since I need everything confirmed twice…. if a 4th Army INF unit (assume the 4th Army HQ and its subordinates are restricted) starts the game in Manchuria, I can’t bring it into China until I PP’ed it to an unrestricted HQ.


Also, paying PP to have the 4th Army HQ become an unrestricted command (thus freeing up all of it's subordinates at the price of a HQ change) is extremely gamey and not done.... correct?

The easiest way to confirm this is to find 4th Army HQ and find out which HQ it reports to. If it is Korea Army or Kwantung Army Command, it is part of the Manchukuo garrison and requires PP paid to cross into China.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I’m pretending I’m playing against a real person, and as such, don’t want to steamroll China with troops I wouldn’t have available in a PBEM.

So, to confirm since I need everything confirmed twice…. if a 4th Army INF unit (assume the 4th Army HQ and its subordinates are restricted) starts the game in Manchuria, I can’t bring it into China until I PP’ed it to an unrestricted HQ.

I think your interpretation is the most common interpretation of 'paying full PPs' for a Manchuko-based LCU.

Also, paying PP to have the 4th Army HQ become an unrestricted command (thus freeing up all of it's subordinates at the price of a HQ change) is extremely gamey and not done.... correct?

This is an example of paying "wholesale" for a restricted unit. The ultimate cost for the individual infantry LCU 'bought out' in this example would be minimal. Against the AI, I wouldn't use the term "gamey", as the AI will not abide by *any* common house rules. Against another PBEM player, this approach to paying 'wholesale' for what should be a 'retail' purchase would likely generate issues.

[AcePylut]

Roger. Danke!

Yeah against the AI,,,, exploit away... because what's the AI gonna do? Probably send a US CV escorted by 2 DD to do a city attack against Tokyo in April '42.

Me, I'm going to "pretend" that I'm fighting a PBEM opponent as far as HR's go, just so I have a slightly better feel of the available power to the IJ.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

I can only speak for me but I use strict house rules when playing the AI.

[Numdydar]

Me too. The Allied AI lets me do whatever I want and never complains [:)]

Actually I do pay full price for units to move anywhere from restricted command when I play Japan regardless of AI or not.

[geofflambert]

If you can't put them on ships or air transport don't march them across borders. I don't consider that to be a house rule, I just don't do it.

[geofflambert]

I would say, buy out the armor first. Then the engineers. Then the flak and some of the AF units. Don't be fixated on the AVs. Infantry is very expensive to buy out. Some of what I'm talking about (the armor in particular) should go against the Chinese initially. Combat engineers too. Construction engineers and AF units will be needed elsewhere. A lot of the artillery is too expensive, but the higher calibers are not and will be very useful reducing Chinese cities. The machine cannon units I think are nice fortifying island garrisons.