Condor Flies south for the war

[Philwd]

Condor and I decided to change our AAR format to that used by Wobbly and Herbieh. This way we can both share our thoughts and strategies as the game progresses. Neither will read the other's thread from here on.

Scen 17 I am IJN. 120% commit.

The current situation: I have all of NG and Lunga. Condor holds the New Hebrides and Oz. I haven't bothered with Irau yet although Nevea has been heavily mined as a nice surprise .

I'm up by 4800 points.

Operation MO is in full swing. The full 2nd and 38th divisions, Yazawa, 21st, 65th, 35th brigades and several naval garrisons are invading Oz. Its turn 91.

In defending PNG Condor lost 4 regiments out of his original 12. We are using very variable reinforcements so he won't have both the 32nd and 41st yet. My recon showed Cairns has 2 regiments. I didn't want to try bypassing it for Townsville as bypassing GG earlier cost me dearly.

Recon also showed Townsville with 3 regiments. If I can take Cairns quick enough Townsville should fall before he can really reinforce it. FT has dropped off small detachments to take Cooktown and the 2 beaches N and S of Cairns.

I know I am running out of time. But Condor's loss of the regiments at PNG and will lose at Cairns should mean he hasn't increased his strength in Oz since the beginning even with the 2 US divisions. 5 regiments X 117 assault value is more than 6 regiments X 81.

Any thoughts from the IJN vets out there? I could switch to Townsville still but I don't want Cairns in my rear.

I'll also post losses on both sides soon.

Quark

[Philwd]

Smack down time. My BB TF at Townsville doesn't retire. Second straight time. Only instead of this being the Yamato it is several cruisers. They got chewn up. Shiratsuyu probably won't make it. 45 runway hits and 9 more base but it didn't faze his air one bit.

However south of Lunga for once my naval attacks don't go after Luganville and hit the Indianapolis group. A CL is in bad shape and I got torp hits on 2 other cruisers. But his flak tore me up. 8 lost Bettys and 48 damaged . Only 4 cruisers!!! If that was bait to destroy my air it did a pretty good job.

I take Ayton north of Cairns. He only manages to hit 3 transports not sinking any. So the Townsville attacks may have saved the landing. Forces have landed at Cooktown and Inisfail.

I see another group of 4 CAs well E of Townsville. Not sure what else is with them. I did spy his CVs hiding out SE of Noumea 3 turns ago but lost them during T-storms.

I should have all transports unloading at Cairns. I still see 2 Inf and an Eng there. T-storms again next turn so maybe that will ground most of his air.

My greatest fear now is he will time his carriers to come in when his LBA has worn down my CAP. To counter this I have several base forces ready to land so I can move in LBA fighters for cover.

Quark

[Philwd]

Losses on both sides are heavy but could be worse.
IJN USN
CV 0 1 with Hornet, Enterprise in Pearl repairing
BB 0 0
CA 3 3
CL 3 1
DD 7 8
SS 3 2
MSW 1 0
AO 0 7
AK/AP 19 32

I also have many ships >20 SYS reparing at Truk. I'm not sending anything back to Japan.

Air
US >500
IJN ~275

Ground
US 800
IJN 60

I've got 5 BB in theatre and 10 CV/CVL. My cruiser ranks are thinning alarmingly. Until I get some repaired I think they stay with the carriers.

Quark

[Philwd]

8/1
Smurf smurf. His carriers are 300 mi off Rockhampton heading towards Townsville. They won't be in range of the landing for 2 turns but my CAP fatigue is >50 now. What a choice now. Stay and defend the transports, chase the CVs while I have some semi-rested fighters or run and rest for a turn then come back.

Bloody last turn. I had a 65 plane CAP over Cairns but he repeatedly fought through. I shot down 62 planes and damaged 39 more. Hopefully that is the high water mark. The P-39s have been his workhorses and he lost 22 and had another 20 damaged. Even at this stage of the game his LBA is deadly. Part of these have been the orphans from Yorktown.

I had 1 transport hit 5 mines!!! The game seemed to be caught in a loop. It would say the MSW widened the lane then this transport would hit a MK16. It happened 5 times in a row like that. But then one entire attack went after the lone cripple. So I guess if I had to sacrifice 1 transport...

5 regiments mostly landed. Combat eng in next wave.

Quark

[wobbly]

Originally posted by Quark
Losses on both sides are heavy but could be worse.
IJN USN
CV 0 1 with Hornet, Enterprise in Pearl repairing
BB 0 0
CA 3 3
CL 3 1
DD 7 8
SS 3 2
MSW 1 0
AO 0 7
AK/AP 19 32

I also have many ships >20 SYS reparing at Truk. I'm not sending anything back to Japan.

Air
US >500
IJN ~275

Ground
US 800
IJN 60

I've got 5 BB in theatre and 10 CV/CVL. My cruiser ranks are thinning alarmingly. Until I get some repaired I think they stay with the carriers.

Quark

We are at about the same date in our game but the losses have been massively higher. Most noticably, both sides have lost about 20 DDs each.

I must admit, with my transport tfs loosing their cohesion, i might have postponed attacks.

I absolutely hate that "do I stay or do I go" need that you have from your carrier fighters. I suppose the only thing I can say is that while his carriers are around you have to worry - LBA though are very unikely to attack - under the current version they only seem to hit you when you are damaged or have very little CAP up. Of course you have been using your fighters for LRCAP - can you fulfill that neeed from any units in PM while the rest? (when I say rest of course I do mean leave them on 0% CAP escort - I doubt they will escorting any Land based attacks - sounds like your LBA took a hammering!).

P.S. Nice to see the little idea of mine had merit - and obviously Herbie is doing well on his side of the bargain.

[Philwd]

Hi Wobbly,

I must admit, with my transport tfs loosing their cohesion, i might have postponed attacks.

Actually I did wait 2 turns. I waited a turn before I told Condor and posted on the other thread. Most TF hadn't gotten that far away but 2 turns in this game can kill you. The worst part was theKirishima battle group teleporting back to Rabaul effectively putting them out of the initial battles. I re-allocated ships to the BB forces but most are now damaged due to them not retiring at daylight.

We are at about the same date in our game but the losses have been massively higher. Most noticably, both sides have lost about 20 DDs each.

The losses in our game have occured at mainly 2 points; the initial bull rush at PM. That's when I sank Oz force. Then when Condor sneakily put all Lexington's and Yorktown's SBD and Wildcats at GG. He caught 12 transports,Yamato, Mutsu, Nagato and several cruisers.

I absolutely hate that "do I stay or do I go" need that you have from your carrier fighters. I suppose the only thing I can say is that while his carriers are around you have to worry - LBA though are very unikely to attack - under the current version they only seem to hit you when you are damaged or have very little CAP up. Of course you have been using your fighters for LRCAP - can you fulfill that neeed from any units in PM while the rest? (when I say rest of course I do mean leave them on 0% CAP escort - I doubt they will escorting any Land based attacks - sounds like your LBA took a hammering!).

I decided to go north of Cairns out of range of the carriers for this turn. I'm keeping 2 squadrons on CAP, 3 over Cairns plus the Zeros at GG will also CAP Cairns. That leaves 7 squadrons resting this turn. I moved another Zero squadron from Lunga to GG although my Betty's at Lunga will be ready in another turn. I lost 8 planes to his cruisers but only a couple pilots. So I'm all ready and raring to go if Condor tries anything(did drain my Betty pool though). Plus if I really need to I have another 2 Betty squads and 2 Nell squads training I can move in an emergency. Only his planes at Cairns could possibly hit the CVs this turn and they are about spent.

All the other task forces in the area that can;t make Cairns are running NW this turn as I can't spare any LRCAP.

We'll have to see how this turns out.

Quark

[herbieh]

As soon as I read the 1st line in your AAR I went Hooray!, at last I can see how this I wont read your AAR thingy goes.
Beware, the temptation for a peek....:p


PS beer is good.

[Philwd]

8/2

His CV(s) must have retired. Only air attacks on Cairns this turn are a couple weak SBD raids my CAP easily destroys. So my Zeros are rested and ready for action.

Condor pulls off a sneaky little raid at Woodlark with 3 CA, couple DD and a DMS. Swept right through my mines. I didn't have much there anymore just some scouts and a naval garrison. I saw them 3 turns ago when I attacked the Indianapolis but then lost them.

However all is not well in Oz. I had followed Frag's advice in my approach and kept the size of the transport TF small without combat ships to avoid detection and attack. It worked beautifully. When they got to Cairns I covered them with the teleporting but now back Kirishima battle group.

Condor sent 2 DD forces against the transports. First one came at night. I lost 1 DD. He lost 1 and the other 2 can't be long for Davey Jones locker. Then came the daylight attack. I was thinking come on you Yankee scum eat 14 in. steel. Well the Kirishima despite having half loadouts still decided to RUN HOME!!!!! With command set to patrol and to follow another TF that wasn't attacked. Bottom line is I lost most of a fresh regiment. Why is the computer AI changing my orders?

This game really needs a way to tell your ships you don't move, you don't retire unless sunk. Like the example of the Hammond fighting off Yamato at Leyte. Right now if a ship gets damaged or decides it is running low on fuel etc it will run away(neither the case here). In most cases you want the ships to run back. But one more option at least is needed.

Losing one fresh regiment might mean this operartion has gone belly up but we'll push ahead and see. I was sooooo peeved when I saw the combat I had to wait a day to write the AAR down.

First attacks start next turn. Without the big regiment odds won't be good. I have decided to move the 35th brigade in. I was holding it back in reserve for Townsville.

Herbieh thanks for the warning. Like a little kid at Christmas you want so much to peek.

Quark

p.s. most beer here is not good. still after last turn I'll take what I can get

edit: Forgot to mention Mutsu battlegroup is now moving back to protect the beachhead. Here's to hoping she won't run at the first sight of a patrol boat.

[Mr.Frag]

This game really needs a way to tell your ships you don't move, you don't retire unless sunk. Like the example of the Hammond fighting off Yamato at Leyte. Right now if a ship gets damaged or decides it is running low on fuel etc it will run away(neither the case here). In most cases you want the ships to run back. But one more option at least is needed.

Put a super aggressive commander in charge of the TF, he'll stick around longer then a run of the mill guy.

Do not Retire is the most misunderstood option of the game. It does NOT mean do not retire as you would think. It simply increases the odds that your group will stick it out a little longer and brush off smaller attacks. The only real "do not retire" option is with a suicidal commander in charge coupled with do not retire being set and even that will not always keep your ships there as even he might decide he has had enough abuse and leave.

Glad you found my "how to avoid air attacks" useful. I was really quite shocked when I stumbled onto it as it really shouldn't be possible. One of those "gotchas" from lack of target controls with air combat.

[Philwd]

Thanks Frag,
The commander had an aggressiveness of 72. I think I may see part of the problem. Originally Kirishima and brethren were escorting the carriers to Noumea. I then detached them. So a CDR is in charge not an admiral. Probably makes a big difference.

A whole regiment glub glub...glub glub ... gone. Such are the pressures of command .

Quark

[Philwd]

8/3
Quiet turn. I unload more. Condor hits troops at Innisfail with 55 P-39s. ouch.

I run a bombardment attack mostly to see how many troops I have vs Condor. To my surprise a third regiment shows up that recon never saw. I decided to send in all but the reserve regimant of the 35th.

8/4
Grenadier gets off 3 consecutive torp attacks finally connecting with the last one. S-46(I absolutely hate that sub) hits a transport with all 4 torpedos. Afterwards all they can find are penny sized pieces. Only good thing is it was empty.

229th regiment only has 1 squad left. never seen that before. I goof with first day of attacks. I set all to attack then go to the 229th to keep it on defend(I want the fragment to survive so I get the replacement!!) and accidentally hit all defend. I'll start next turn with more troops unloaded.

Condor sends a feeble SBD strike that costs him 7 Wildcats and 7 SBDs. He admits later in an email he forgot to stand 1 squadron down. I need more mistakes like that .

I am doing something that may be very stupid. I am using Cooktown as a temporary haven for my transports. This way I can get back to Cairns within a day of it falling so I can load up quick and get to Townsville. Or Rockhampton if he loads up Townsville too much. Condor of course has seen it and has a sub sitting in the harbor. No air attacks yet.

I feel Condor will try for Lunga while I am preoccupied down here. I am seriously considering sending the reserve regiment there. Along with the masses of naval garrisons it should hold off an entire division. I just have this sinking feeling as I lost the 229th I will need it to take Townsville. But if he gets the 1st Mar ashore there I'll never take it back. He really likes to hit where I'm not and he knows where I am. I'll have to decide next turn.

Quark

[Philwd]

8/5
My first attack goes off at 1:1. I'm not worried. Couple turns and his fatigue will equal mine.

I moved my super ASW force of CS and AV into range of Cooktown and Cairns. Immediate results as I spot 4 subs and attack 2. No attacks by spotted subs.

I start the reserve regiment to Lunga. I spot 1 CV with lots of CLAA at Efate. What is he doing there?

8/6
Oh oh. I had put a full naval garrison at Innisfail to cut off his retreat and hoped that would be enough to hold on its own. Well Condor hit it with 2 air attacks followed by a para drop. He wiped me out in one turn. The retreat route out of Cairns is now open.

In a way I'm glad I know where the paras are. I was very worried about where they would show up. As a counter I immediately reloaded the 4th naval garrison(assault of 64) and am sending to Innisfail. I think I can retake before Cairns will fall. If I added right I don't need those assault points. We'll see.

2nd day of attacks saw me with a 2:1 but with 3:1 advantage in troops. Losses even. My combat eng now unloaded. Fort level at 6.

Condor also pulled an old trick again. He sent at least one carriers worth of planes to Townsville and tried to attack the transports at Cairns. He had 3 full squadrons of Wildcats, 2 SBD and 1 Avenger. I know 2 Wildcat squads were already there from Yorktown and Lex. He probably isn't too happy. He lost 28 of 72 fighters and I lost 8. 8 SBDs and 7 Avengers also lost. One minor hit on a CA in return for losing 30% of his attackers. However I lose my top ace A. Kurihara. Flags are at half mast throughout the fleet.

Condor basically only has P39s left for defending Townsville. He is throwing the kitchen sink at me to defend Cairns. I hope it will backfire into a steamroller when I get to Townsville.

I have 3 base forces unloading so I'll be able to move Zeros to Cooktown. I want to withdraw the CVs for a couple turns rest prior to Townsville. With 3 CVs worth of planes now decimated in Oz; one at Efate that leaves 1 carrier left. Can I safely discount a CV attack near Oz?? Condor admitted he doesn't have 3 carriers in theatre yet.

ASW super force continues to find subs and attack. No hits but also no sub attacks.

What am I forgetting???

Quark

[Philwd]

8/7
I see 2 CVs 60 mi west of Wunpuko. So they moved from Efate towards Lunga. If he is trying to draw my CV away from Cairns its not going to work. I moved a Zero sqn back from GG and moved a brand new Betty sqn in. If he wants to play let him. 3 fighter sqn for escort and 4 bomber. I was saving the Betty's but hey I have to defend Lunga.

Condor may be getting bold due to the success of his raid at Woodlark. I know he is trying to distract me. I will have to defend with what I left behind or new forces entering the theatre.

I am re-directing the reserve regiment to Shortlands and I'll FT it into Lunga from there. Will be quicker just in case he is escorting transports.

I got a 4:1 at Cairns. Should fall next turn. My combat eng don't seem to be reducing the fort levels. I have 2 there. Any ideas?? My post hasn't drawn much comment.
I see a FT force of 8?? DDs at Innisfail to I assume pick up the paras. My own FT is going in next turn to cut the retreat back off. Condor placed a sub there.

Bad news is 3 SBDs slipped past my CAP and put 2 more bombs into Suzuya. Damage is major but not in danger of sinking. She is out of the war for a long time.

Well the near impossible happened last turn. With a commit level of low I got 9 ships released! yes 9. Of course 2 are POS like Unyo and the AV with no planes but I'll take the 5 DDs and 2 ML.

Also I have seen something this game with regard to flood damage. I have lost EVERY ship that got above 70 flot no matter what port they were in. From a size 3 to a size 9. It has made no difference. I've tried docked and disbanded. I'll probably lose 4 more next turn. Condor's subs are way too good this game.

Quark

[madflava13]

Quark-
I've loved reading your and Attack Condor's AAR... I think what may be keeping people from offering suggestions (at least that's what's holding me back) is the fact we're all reading both sides. I wouldn't want to comment for fear of tipping either side off to the other's actions...

That being said, this is a great read. Keep it up!

[fcooke]

If you want to trap and kill the defenders there you should stop attacking until you get Innisfail back. Seems a falling base often causes an autoretreat - this doesn't happen if you hold the autoretreat hex. I don't this this suggestion gives away anything that shouldn't be given away.....

[Philwd]

Fcooke,
Its exactly what I did. The last attack took Cairns but the defenders are still on the outskirts. It will take me 2 turns to take Innisfail back. So the attacks have stopped for now. I'm ordering all my air assets to attack Innisfail to help.

Thanks,
Quark

[Philwd]

8/8 another 4:1 at Cairns and it falls. The defending regiments retreat to the outskirts. I decide to halt attacks until Innisfail falls.

At Innisfail the FT didn't pick up the paras rather it dropped off a HQ and eng unit. My FT force though decides to go HOME rather than move the 1 hex from Cairns to Innisfail. What do I have to do to get my units to not change orders. The other TF does start to unload.

Lose another transport to S-45. My Petes attack 3 times but miss.

8/9 WTF!! Mutsu doesn't move. Gosh darn blanking GGGRRRR!!!

Other TF has finished unloading only to find FIVE!!! inf units now at Innisfail. How did they get there???? Well after I calmed down I looked further at plane losses. Condor has been pushing his PBYs. So part of it is PBY ferries. He probably also snuck in another 1-2 FT I didn't see. I'll recon to be sure. I'm also reconning Townsville again and Charter Towers. I'm very sure they aren't full strength. In any case my couple squads are loading right back up.

Loading up all Inf at Cairns except for a couple units for garrison. I've decided to bypass Innisfail and go straight for Townsville. I'll blockade Innisfail with BB forces to prevent evacuation.

my fuel situation is critical. I've drained 6 tankers worth. I'm running the CVs into Cairns under cover of rain to empty the fuel there. I feel I'm pretty safe as I now have 3 base units unloaded and 3 Zero sqns based at Cairns.

LBA from Charters and Townsville attack my inf causing only light casualties.

8/10 Mutsu only moves 2 hexes!!! What the smurf is going on??? I still need the 8th garrison loaded up there. 63 squads worth.

Recon shows the paras, another similar sized unit( mar raiders?) and 3 small sub units @ Innisfail. I'm still bypassing. His HQ and Eng unit left last turn for Townville. I'm very confused by that move. Why send them at all??? This sending units to Innisfail seems desparate to me. I'm not going to delay the assault to clean them out. I'll let them starve for a while.

Charter had 1 inf and 2 eng while Twnsvlle had 3 inf plus AA,eng and CD units.

Big kicker this turn is 3 transport TF that were loading up @ Cairns decide to unload everything overnight and go home. Not again!!! Between all these TF unloading and/or running home I've lost 7 turns in my assault. I'd be in Townsville with it about to fall!!!! I know I set everything right as the other 3 TF there are still loading normally; for now. No fuel problems. I had all the transports with the same destination; follow the carriers. I know all 3 loony TF had loaded up troops. I have no idea why this has happened again.

Dave B. mentioned in Mogami's thread that he will disband TF often since he sometimes sees erratic behavior. Two of these TF have been formed for quite a while. The third was a brand new composition. So maybe that's part of it but not all.

My gamble running the carriers in worked. Drained Cairns dry.

LBA again attacks at Cairns. Light casualties but significant disruption.

My Vals and Petes attack S-45 8 times but no hits:( .

Condor's carriers lounging down near Noumea. He won't put into port. Hopefully he is racking up the sys damage.

And finally my LRCAP shoots down one of my own recon planes over Innisfail.

Quark

[wobbly]

Quark, just a thought about errant movement. Did you ever have the Tfs in question set to follow another TF?
I have had a TF decide to up and follow other TFs after they have got to a destination. There has been 2 things I have noticed:

1.you have the Tf being followed recreated and it is given a new tf designation (I often get rid of cripples out of my transport Tfs so they don't hamper speed - you can end up completely removing the original TF). Now the tf on follow orders no longer has the original TF to follow - it chooses another arbitrarily.

2. You get to your location - remove follow orders only to have them reinstate the next turn. This sems to occur with surface and air TFs especially - don't know what's going on in this case.

[Philwd]

Hi Wobbly,
Good thoughts. Neither applied completely but number 1 I think has some validity. Last turn ,which I'll post on in a minute, my TF following the CVs decide to unload JUST the troops and keep all the supplies and still move thier entire movement. Last turn all the TF; transports and CVs were in Cairns. Transports at idle. Nothing loading or unloading. All set to follow the CVs back out. What gives?? Now I have to go back and pick up all the troops and let Condor have 3 more turns at sinking everything. I didn't recreate another AC TF but I have been transferring some ships in and out. TF number never changed. I don't know.

Quark

[Philwd]

8/11
its very depressing how this game has deteriorated. This turn a new yet still as frustrating transport glitch. Last turn I had several transport TF follow the CVs into Cairns. All at idle nothing loading or unloading. The CVs are given new orders to leave. Transports set to follow and do follow. However now they have unloaded all the troops and have ONLY supplies left on board. Plus they moved an entire movement. Now I have to go back and completely load up giving Condor another 3 turns at my ships.

I've decided I can't fight the game and Condor at the same time. The delays from all the various transport glitches have closed the window to take Oz. I'm bugging out and commencing evacuations.

I lost 4 ships last turn. All directly as a result of the snowballing that has happened due to transport bugs. 2 transports as they move back to Cairns after moving away. I had a SC TF blockading Innisfail get mauled by P-39s. Why? Because Mutsu didn't move for 2 turns losing the opportunity to take back Innisfail the first turn before more troops landed.

I only hope I can rescue the troops before I lose all my ships. Hopefully Condor won't notice for a while.

Now starts the long road of being bombed back into the Stone Age.

Quark