The Accidental War Obvert vs Lowpe

[Lowpe]

Invasion went in very nicely, hopefully forts aren't much past 1 and we can grab the base quickly. More troops landing and fresh ships bombarding.

[Lowpe]

Just a little outnumbered here.

[Lowpe]

Major fighting here...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: DanSez

I would wager that the vast majority of the Japanese Players have failed a morale check or two if they have played PBEM games.

That does not mean to quit the game and walk away. Morale keeps you looking for those opportunities, for those victories on the margins. Lack of morale is to just finish the turn.

I would give Lowpe credit (along with a couple of others) of keeping my PBEM games going when the results were rough.

I watched My Little Pony: The Movie and now I am right as rain. My only regret is that I can't rename my CV as the Pinkie Pie as AFB's can.

[MakeeLearn]

"2808 Vehicles"


I've heard that the Japanese Infantry were even better than the German Infantry at Anti-Tank fighting. Due to their fearlessness. Sledgehammer often talked of the bravery of the Japanese soldier.

[PaxMondo]

Amazing that in spite of activating the SOV, you are not too far behind historical conquests in the DEI ...

[&o][&o][&o]

[Drakanel]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: DanSez

So freaking cheesy having US units under the Soviet umbrella.

+1

I freely admit to weak knowledge of game mechanics and design, especially in this area. But this is so preposterous as to strain credibility beyond all bounds. Not a bug, obviously, but definitely an exploit that would, ideally, be shut down in any hypothetical new update.

A bug it is not, and it was obviously not contemplated by house rules and such.

But it's so unbelievable, from a historical point of view it makes zero sense. That Stalin would protect USA troops,and allow an airbase inside his territory... Completely impossible, and very immersion breaking for me.

I know it's a game. I'm just stating my dislike for this particular thing.

Fight on, Lowpe.

[Lowpe]

March 10, 1942

More troops land at Sakhalin, another bombardment force goes in...PT 28 gets into two firefights but dodges all shots fired at her. The orders are given....a general assault will commence at dusk.

Then the air war...and it is fireworks. Sweeps of Vlad run into Migs...the Soviets bomb troops on the northern road where some Oscars get in among them and Palembang is savagely attacked.

[Lowpe]

Heavy bombers. What Joy!

They are targeting runways ...Allies have visions on taking Palembang back.

[Lowpe]

The attack is executed flawlessly. Not even a single cursed American there, other than some planes.

[Lowpe]

With a base taken in Sakhalin, now the fleet must rearm and head east to stop the rampaging Americans.

[Lowpe]

Northern Sumatra action...

[Lowpe]

Nasty day in the air again...not a single Mig shot down. 25 Sallies bomb Vlad at night, not a single hit on the heavy industry there...night fighters present.

[Lowpe]

Lower SRA, FUBAR, but with lots of opportunities.

[Lowpe]

I might delay the attack here and pull out the weakest division. I need this base to fall.

[Lowpe]

Manchuko. 60 Fighters and 21 Bombers at Mishan the first Yankee base. I suspect the bombers are doing recon work.



I would have loved to take Alexandrovsk on the cheap, but Japanese troops are always expendable and 40,000 Soviets there let me grab Shikuka quickly. Although you would say, Lowpe, you should have fought those 40K troops there in the clear where you ships can easily bombard...and I would explain, I need my ships elsewhere.

[Lowpe]

Funky DL.

[Insano]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Nasty day in the air again...not a single Mig shot down. 25 Sallies bomb Vlad at night, not a single hit on the heavy industry there...night fighters present.

18 x PBY's destroyed on the day is good. 132 x PBY's destroyed war to date![X(] I'd say that's equivalent to poking one of his eyes out.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: jwolf

ORIGINAL: DanSez

So freaking cheesy having US units under the Soviet umbrella.

+1

I freely admit to weak knowledge of game mechanics and design, especially in this area. But this is so preposterous as to strain credibility beyond all bounds. Not a bug, obviously, but definitely an exploit that would, ideally, be shut down in any hypothetical new update.

Pray tell, how exactly does one "shut down in any hypothetical update" the change from Soviet to American "ownership"?

It was one of the guiding principles of the AE devs to wherever possible, not hard code outcomes but instead provide players with flexibility even though it was known that some players might "stretch" that flexibility.

There is a cost involved in manually changing base "ownership". PPs spent in doing so are not available for other actions such as unrestricting LCUs. Nor are the feared benefits of changing these bases to American "ownership" necessarily going to ensue. There is much more involved in running an effective American bombing campaign out of these bases than just transferring some long legged bomber units. The logistical infrastructure required is substantial and it is most definitely not automatically furnished by the mere act of changing the base.

In any case these bases are not Soviet country code hexes. Just because in this instance they happen to be captured by Soviet forces is irrelevant. What if they had been captured by Chinese forces or changed to Chinese "ownership" instead of American? American and British bombers can fly out of Chinese bases. In fact Lowpe is under constant attack by British Blenheims flying out of Hami or Urumchi in February and March 1942. Is that really any less "cheesy" or "preposterous". On what basis do you deem which ownership changes are OK and which aren't? Would a scenario which has the Soviets active on 7 Dec 1941 mean that a March 1942 Soviet counter offensive out of Alma Altai to liberate Urumchi from the occupying Japanese PanzerArmee which got there "fueled" by rice, not be able to rightfully return Urumchi to Chinese control.

Why is Obvert being criticised here when countless Allied AARs have screenshots of Burma, Thailand and Indo-China Swiss cheesed in 1943/44 with American, British and even Australian flagged bases. In some cases this is because the Allied player did not want to expend the PPs to avoid the "cheesiness" or they actually wanted the benefits bestowed by the outcome.

From a coding POV it would be easy to just not allow any base anywhere ever be manually changed to a different "ownership". If that happened just make certain you aren't standing in the way of the stampeding herd rushing to mug the coder who did that fix to your concern.

Alfred

[jwolf]

Pray tell...

I don't. That's why I used the word "ideally" in my post. I was not attempting to give any orders to coders and game designers, merely giving my opinion as to what I believe is or is not a reasonable outcome. As to your most substantive question, to wit

On what basis do you deem which ownership changes are OK and which aren't?

I would make no attempt to give a comprehensive answer. However, for the specific instance of Soviet owned or occupied bases, we have abundant historical evidence that the answer is very clear: no, never, absolutely never would they cede anything to anyone not directly under their control, and certainly not to one of the Western powers.

Now as to this game -- as far as I know, no house rules and anything possible in the game engine is permitted. If the two players are happy, great. Nevertheless, I freely confess as a fan that I was flatly incredulous at this turn of events. Maybe that just shows my own ignorance or lack of imagination; if so, fine.

My apologies, Lowpe, for the thread hijack. Whatever happens in your game, it is an amazing spectacle to watch and your AAR is, as ever, really well done.