Use for Long Island, Altamaha and Copahee...

[strew]

We've all had this quandary. What do we do with these 3 CVE's? I've heard cannon fodder, send em back to pearl and hope for something better, Decoy's, aircraft ferries, I've heard even a suggestion to fit them out as fireships and use em like the English did against the Spanish Armada. They are slow, have no inherent airgroup, and are as durable as a wet Kleenex. Well I think I've a solution. At first I used the LI as she was used historically, namely transporting F4F's & SBD's up to Lunga once I took it. I needed the planes on land bases to counter the daily waves of Japanese planes/ ships from the Shortlands and Rabaul. So, I couldn't station a squadron of SBD's or F4F's and use her as a escort for important transport TF's. So mainly she sat at Noumea. Then with the arrival of Altamaha and Copahee my quandary tripled. Now the Sangamon class is useful with its inherent well balanced nice sized air groups, and slightly greater speed and durability. (I've created a UV version of the 5th amphibious force. The 3 Sagamons's 2 CA's and 6 DD's form the air TF. 3 old BB's some CA's, CL's and DD's the shore bombardment TF. And a Few CL / DD's form a surface action TF- all same hex. Works nicely for preparing the way for the troops.) Right now (6/43) I have 7 CV's & 1 CVL (that's right, i haven't lost a carrier yet.- you know i just jinxed myself!) grouped and being used like TF58, and with 3 CVL's due in 18 day's I obviously don't need them slowing down the TF. And using them as decoy's just strikes me as wrong. Wouldn't be to historical. So, now that I've blabbed on, the solution- Give'em to Macarther. Yup that's right. Think of it as the start of the 7th Fleet. I shipped them and all the RAN ships off to Brisbane along with a few more DD's and AK's. Which was the only transfer I've made between SWPAC and SOPAC. I'm not a big Macarther fan (How could he let his chief of staff forbid his chief of air operations from attacking the Formosa airbases hours after news of Pearl. All the while knowing that Japanese were fogged in, there Planes sitting waiting to bomb Clark??? But that's a different post for a different time. Sorry I digressed) also, this seemed to strike a nice balance of the interservice rivalry that was very real. Mac wanted the big carriers, and all Nimitz would let him burrow were the little ones.
Ok, your saying. Issue is still the same, just now there in Brisbane. Well, I took 2 squadrons of P-39's (I couldn't get enough replacement P-38's to fit out all the squadrons) and one of Wirraway's and tossed em on. Gave them an escort of Van Heemskerck and some DD's and DSM's. Set he airplanes as CAP, and Wa-la!!! Close Aircover for Troop TF's! I didn't put P-38's on these for 2 reasons. 1- The P-38's have the range from the airbases to normally cover the TF's anyway. 2- Lets face it, Long Island, Altamaha and Copahee can't take punishment. I don't like the idea of them sinking and taking a squadron of P-38's down with it. I won't loose sleep if they sink and take the P-39's with em. As a side benefit, AI thinks I have a 3 carrier TF now off the coast of PNG and northern Australia. I don't know how well this would work against a human player, but against the AI she seems to do the trick. Its paid off twice already when I took Madang, and they were able to augment the LRCAP of the P-38's against a force of Neils and Bettys

[Oleg Mastruko]

Originally posted by strew
We've all had this quandary.
Ok, your saying. Issue is still the same, just now there in Brisbane.

Mr. strew,

vith all due respekt, one thing iz obviouz from your essay - you've nefer played PBEM.

Dr. Sigmund Oleg (with appropriate german accent)

[TIMJOT]

Strew,

No disrespect. but now let me get this straight, you dont want to use your CVEs as decoys because that would be unhistorical, but you have no proplem operatiing P-39s off them? P-39s may have been able to take off a CVE, but it couldnt land on one. They had no arrester gear and I dont believe their undercarrige was rugged enough to withstand the empact of landing on a carrier. Your p-39s would have rolled off the bow one by one, thats if their landing gear didnt colapse on impact. Not to mention army pilots were not exactly trained for carrier landings and take offs.

Regards

[Mr.Frag]

You do know what the (E) in CV(E) stands for right?

They are Escort carriers, designed to provide cover for slower moving transports and such, not to act as independant fleet carriers that had to be capable of extreme speeds to intercept other naval units. The are defensive weapons, not offensive weapons and could be mass produced quite quickly compared to the fleet level carriers.

The Long Island is a special case, not really fitting in with the later CVE's as it really didn't have the capacity to even function as a CVE.

Since CVE's were aimed at providing escort CAP/ASW to convoys, they didn't need the huge boiler rooms and fuel capacity of the attack carriers. Use them for these purposes and you'll find they fit in nicely, keeping subs out of your path and providing just enough CAP to keep unescorted bomber attacks away.

[Attack Condor]

Was going to post here, but probably get a penalty for piling on. Seriously, escort duty is the way to go. Helps to save having to LRCAP convoys from "station to station", as it were.

I would caution you to pay attention to the good doctor Sigmund there... those pesky human opponents are sooooooooo unorthodoxically unpredictible (can I say that in a family forum like UV?)

Have fun!

[Micah Goodman]

Ok maybe I am missing something… but I thought the CVE’s could not launch planes? Or is it just the Long Island?

[crsutton]

No, they can launch planes. The long Island was really a plane ferry, not a true CVE. She is useful moving your short legged P40s and p39s from Brisbane to Noumea. Just transfer them to the LI in port and ship her out for one turn. Next turn your squadron can fly off of her for Noumea and she can turn right back around for Brisbane and do it again. That was her job in real life.

[crsutton]

No, they can launch planes. The long Island was really a plane ferry, not a true CVE. She is useful moving your short legged P40s and p39s from Brisbane to Noumea. Just transfer them to the LI in port and ship her out for one turn. Next turn your squadron can fly off of her for Noumea and she can turn right back around for Brisbane and do it again. That was her job in real life. She was a converted C-3 merchantman and was used to test ideas for future jeep carriers.

However, the Long Island could and did both land and launch planes. She had a steam launch and arresting gear. Mostly Wildcats and Seagull scout planes, but she handled SBDs and Avengers as well. (and the last group of operational Brewster Buffalos as late as August of 1942) She provided air cover for Nimitz's task force after the battle of Midway. Around Guadcanal she was used as a ferry. After the new baby flattops started to arrive in theater she was sent back to the west coast where she was used to train carrier pilots for about a year. She then spent the rest of the war ferrying airplanes to various bases in the Pacific.

I pulled this off the USS Long Island Association's web page.

[bizo40]

I always wondered what use the LI had in the game. Thanks to all for the info.

[Feinder]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/03/42

Weather: Partly Cloudy

Night Time Fire Ship Attack, near Gili-Gili at 14,39.

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Collision hits 1, On fire, heavy damage
DD Uzuki
DD Satsuki
DD Minazuki
DD Mikazuki

Allied Ships
CVE Long Island, Collision hits 1, On fire, and is sunk

[Drex]

In my latest invasion of PM against Soulblazer, I placed a CVE in each of my major transport TFs for air cover but they also served as a magnet for attacking planes taking the heat off the transports. As a result, they were sunk but the transports got through relatively unscathed.