ASW WAD?

[Harrybanana]

I have run extensive tests involving literally thousands of attacks and have come to the following conclusions:

1. Each level of sub technology is supposed to increase a subs chance of diving to avoid attack by 10%. I believe this is WAD.
2. Each level of ASW technology is supposed to decrease a subs chance of diving by 10%. This is not WAD. A level 0 sub will dive 20% of the time whether it is attacked by a tech level 0 DD or a tech level 5 DD. Similarly, a tech level 5 sub will dive 70% of the time no matter what the tech level of the attacking DD.
3. Each level of ASW increases a DDs sub attack and sub defence values by 1. I believe this is WAD.
4. Each level of sub technology increases a subs naval attack value by 1, but does not increase it's defence value. I believe this is WAD.


The net effect of all of the above is that as DDs and subs mutually increase in tech levels the DDs will hit the subs less often, but when they do will do more damage. Also, it becomes more and more suicidal for a sub to attack a DD. At level 5 for both a sub will only likely inflict 1 or 2 points of damage while suffering 8 to 10 points of damage (assuming roughly equal effectiveness). So at level 0 for both 10 DD attacks on subs will on average hit 8 times doing 20 points of damage while suffering 10 points of damage. While at level 5 each the DDs will only hit on average 3 times doing 24 points of damage while suffering 3 points of damage. Of course, this isn't quite true, because if a sub only has a few hit points left whacking it for 8 points of damage is overkill.

So if ASW is not WAD because increased tech levels do not reduce a subs chance to dive; is this something that should be fixed? Personally I would like to see increased ASW reducing a subs dive chance, but balance this by increased sub tech also increasing a subs defence value.

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks Harry, I will take a look as that would definitely be an issue if it is not working as designed.

[Harrybanana]

Thank you Hubert.

As I previously stated, it is my opinion that as ASW and sub techs increase the ASW tech increases should be more effective. This would mean that at tech levels 0 and 1 for both the subs would have the advantage, at tech levels 2 and 3 they would be more or less equal and at tech levels 4 and 5 the ASW would have the advantage.

If ASW is fixed so that each level decreases a subs dive chance by 10% it would certainly accomplish this; but in my opinion too much so. At the present time I don't think the subs do have the advantage at tech level 0. My suggestions are as follows:

1. Give subs a basic chance to dive of 40% (rather than 20%). The chance to dive will continue to increase by 10% per level. This will allow the German Uboats to enjoy the Happy Hunting times they had early in the War.

2. Fix ASW so that each tech level decreases a subs chance to dive by 15%. Therefore at level 5 for both subs and ASW the subs chance to dive will be 40% + 50% - 75% = 15%.

3. Change it so that instead of each level of sub tech increasing its naval attack strength by 1, each level increases its attack strength by 0.5 and its defence strength by 0.5. This will give subs a better chance of surviving ASW attacks at the higher tech levels.

4. Instead of each level of ASW tech increasing sub defence by 1.0, reduce this to 0.5.

5. If possible implement it so that a subs chance to dive in shallow water (within 2 hexes of land) is halved. So instead of a 40% chance at tech level 0 it would only be 20%. Not only is this historical it would deter the Axis from using uboats to screen an invasion of England.

[Harrybanana]

Hubert,

Have you had a chance yet to see if ASW is WAD in terms of decreasing a subs chance to dive?

If it isn't are you planning on just fixing it so it does WAD, or are you considering some of my suggestions (or your own) so that ASW tech does not overpower Sub tech.

[Hubert Cater]

I can confirm that ASW is not WAD in terms of decreasing a subs chance to dive, so at the moment while this is now fixed on our end, we need to ensure that we balance things out going forward as having it WAD will change the feel/results of the Sub/Destroyer war for sure.

Bill and I are looking into the suggestions and doing a closer analysis on what we feel will be the optimal solution, so thanks again for all your feedback and in depth ideas as well [:)]