Soviets post your Horrible loses here

[SparkleyTits]

Indeed like my entire 1st Pzg in the south now shivering at the might at the red army!!
I thought it was safe... I wonder how many more times it is going to happen until I learn? Haha

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Indeed like my entire 1st Pzg in the south now shivering at the might at the red army!!
I thought it was safe... I wonder how many more times it is going to happen until I learn? Haha

Pysch0, Khan, ... there is a theme there [:D]

[SparkleyTits]

Haha indeed Telemecus!

I would like to say something witty like I am trying to give my opponents a chance but really I am just greedy and bad at the game

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: morvael

But when you consider that people play with hindsight and no political/psychological restrictions, no "not one step back" orders, how do you think the game can replicate absolute losses? This is impossible. I wish there was a script where the AI would play entire war in historical manner, and loses could be tuned to that scripted game.

One problem might be that the option of trading blood for space and time (not one step back ) is not available. That is a button or something to click to say trade blood until morale fails completely. I propose that units retreat at the point where they stop getting the best of it and morale ability to project power cross. Hitler and Stalin gave orders to have units in a position to take enormous causulties at the point where such a move would be futile for the long run, but they were thinking in the now. . Simply space and time were held or attempted (Slominsk I) at a cost of greater blood. I propose that might be the reason that casualties are not reflective to historical observations.

Still this is a great game and quite addictive!

[RforRush]

What do you mean specifically with so called "not one step back" orders? And what they have to do with the fact that losses in the game are unbalanced between opposite sites?

ORIGINAL: morvael
fighting withdrawal under heavy air superiority.

Why Soviet units can't make fighting withdrawals?

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: RforRush

What do you mean specifically with so called "not one step back" orders? And what they have to do with the fact that losses in the game are unbalanced between opposite sites?

ORIGINAL: morvael
fighting withdrawal under heavy air superiority.

Why Soviet units can't make fighting withdrawals?

They can, it just requires higher average experience of all involved units than your opponent to pull off [:)]
Basically you can see this vs Axis allies and beaten German infantry late in the war.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
One problem might be that the option of trading blood for space and time (not one step back ) is not available. That is a button or something to click to say trade blood until morale fails completely. I propose that units retreat at the point where they stop getting the best of it and morale ability to project power cross. Hitler and Stalin gave orders to have units in a position to take enormous causulties at the point where such a move would be futile for the long run, but they were thinking in the now. . Simply space and time were held or attempted (Slominsk I) at a cost of greater blood. I propose that might be the reason that casualties are not reflective to historical observations.

Still this is a great game and quite addictive!

Yes, ability to set posture like in V4V (withdraw if attacked, hold at all cost, probe, all out assault) would be welcome. It isn't hard to add the buttons, it's hard to alter battle engine to take this into account.

[RforRush]

ORIGINAL: morvael
They can, it just requires higher average experience of all involved units than your opponent to pull off

This seems not very fair for both sides, experience already affect CV greatly.

Also curious, is beta patch coming? [8|]

[morvael]

It is, it has been delivered to 2by3 on the 23rd. But I don't know when it will reach Matrix, when Matrix will prepare new installer, and schedule a release window for us.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: RforRush

This seems not very fair for both sides, experience already affect CV greatly.

This was necessary to leave the 1:1 loss ratio area of earlier versions. So it was specifically tailored to something that favours the German in the early phase of the war, without saying directly "give Germans this bonus".

[RforRush]

So AI test game is a failure, Soviet AI is totally incapable of any offensive action, makes a lot of stupid attacks (about half of the attack are failure each turn) and not even close to Berlin on it's real capture date. Killed loss ratio on 5 May is 1 : 3.6

[SparkleyTits]

Well try to keep in mind Rush that this game is tailored for enjoyable competetive play and I for one think the developers do a very good job of juggling the needs of fun, stimulating gameplay & different plausible outcomes each game by tailoring the coding around the game having a certain feel/flow at certain stages of the war differing for each nation allowing for overall historically plausible results with a similar feel to the war overall on a grand scale

Idealistically it sounds great to have exact historical numbers in all ways but in theory I do not personally think it would work as an enjoyable game unfortunately
This games coding is immense and if you make it too rigid to simulate an exactly historical war the gameplay would suffer because of that and I imagine would end up becoming rather flat and linear once the numbers are manipulated for *perfect play* etc

[wallas]

ORIGINAL: morvael

I wish there was a script where the AI would play entire war in historical manner, and loses could be tuned to that scripted game.

I wish historical manner would take a solid back seat to a competitive and balanced game which either side could win based on skill. If I want historical I will read a book. Your doing great in my book Morvael

[charlie0311]

Hear, Hear!!!

[RforRush]

Luckily the game is

a turn based simulation of the Eastern Front in World War
Two from June 1941 to September 1945.

It will be terrible if the game will be dumbed down to become an another competitive arcade.

[SparkleyTits]

Changing some numbers in the coding so it works for both nations as a complex, layered, enjoyable and competetive game is not the same thing as dumbing a game down and I don't think it at all diminishes the effect or complexity of the monsterous amount of mechanics this game

I imagine the code would need reworking from the ground up again to get it to historical numbers at this point?

Maybe it is something that is being worked on for WitE2?

[RforRush]

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits
Maybe it is something that is being worked on for WitE2?

There were some talks about possibility of early Soviet counterattacks in WitE2, which assume they will be able to inflict substantial losses on enemy. But I can't find official confirmation.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: morvael

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
One problem might be that the option of trading blood for space and time (not one step back ) is not available. That is a button or something to click to say trade blood until morale fails completely. I propose that units retreat at the point where they stop getting the best of it and morale ability to project power cross. Hitler and Stalin gave orders to have units in a position to take enormous causulties at the point where such a move would be futile for the long run, but they were thinking in the now. . Simply space and time were held or attempted (Slominsk I) at a cost of greater blood. I propose that might be the reason that casualties are not reflective to historical observations.

Still this is a great game and quite addictive!

Yes, ability to set posture like in V4V (withdraw if attacked, hold at all cost, probe, all out assault) would be welcome. It isn't hard to add the buttons, it's hard to alter battle engine to take this into account.

Maybe just apply the rout casualty algorithm (but don't apply the rout label) if a defender choses to hold at all costs or an attacker chooses to "all out assault" with a benefit of increasing or decreasing odds by 'X' utilizing the already in place Soviet +1 logic .. Then the all out assault vs hold at all costs produces the most casualties .. also increase the probability of rout going through the rout casualty logic again .. just a thought for discussion.

[M60A3TTS]

Keeping the thread alive.

[56ajax]

Just trying to wind me up...??[:D]

well, my German opponent is streaming into the wide open spaces heading for the oilfields and I notice a fresh airfield, only with Recon on it, in a clear hex...oh what a dill...I decide to bomb the airfield. Not one AXIS fighter in range. And the losses are 1 to 18; yep I lose....18. Battle results said there were 60 88's (flak). Surely that is a result that the boys back in the Ruhr would be proud of?[;)]

The Red Air Force must be on a go slow, and each turn is 1 week, so perhaps my planes circled over head for a couple of days....now in 1942 it would have taken 20,000 rounds of AA to take down one plane so....

Now how rapidly does an 88 fire...

I know, stop grizzling, WiTE 2 is coming and i have been playing for most of the day and I think I need a good lie down[>:]