The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

1/11/45

Carriers: If KB remains on station one more day, my carriers will have the angle. Whether John remains in position, I just don't know. I still think 50/50.

If his carriers do begin to retire, it's going to be a close thing. If he catches wind of my carriers, he'll probably be able to avoid a clash, if he wishes to. If he doesn't catch wind, my carriers may be able to strike.

And no matter what, the odds of my carriers hitting his AO TF is increasing. If his AOs don't retire tomorrow, I think such a clash becomes likely.

Is all this worth it? Is what I've already expended (TKs and DEs) worth it?

I'm not sure it is, but I wanted to develop the possibilities as best I could.

Had John's sent a massive CV TF with 350 aircraft, I would've long since evacuated Pago Pago. I wouldn't have lost a single ship. But the chance for a clash out here, where he's far from home, possibly low on ammo, possibly with wearied pilots or depleted squadrons, while my guys were fresh and had much more info (detection), seemed like a scenario worth exploring fully.

I haven't lost anything I'll miss in the least. But if this devolves, John will be crowing about a success that was nothing more than a ridiculous gamble. I'll have fed the monster in him - the inveterate raider - for better or worse, in games yet to come. So potential future opponents of John's may still have the pleasure of dealing with his raiding.


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"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

2:1, man. 2:1
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

1/11/45

Fancy Pants: Shanghai falls.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
2:1, man. 2:1

I haven't lost site of 2:1. That's all I think about.

I've thought from the beginning of this carrier raid that there was an equation that could lead to a nice victory. I had to make a rather costly deposit to further that equation. It's no guarantee outcome, even if I draw the carrier battle. But it's fun trying to work this out.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by HansBolter »

On the CVE in an Escort TF with APDs, are you sure you will get flight ops from the CVE?

I didn't think you could get flight ops unless the carrier is in an Air Combat TF.

You may have to reconfigure to an Air Combat TF by removing the APDs.

Can't say for certain as I have never tried it.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Lowpe »

I believe you get full flight ops of a CVE task force -- they exist as a form so the AI can better use air operations task forces with proper ships.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

1/12/45

KB East: Yowza: 10 hexes separate KB East and my carriers.

Would you or wouldn't you?

I'll post more later, but suffice to say no raid on Pago Pago today. KB is retiring, though a bit slowly and on a more northerly course than anticpated.

Tough decision, this. I've worked to create this opportunity but it is by no means optimal. Prudence or boldness here? What does the game call for? What does the war call for?


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

1/12/45

KB East: Yowza: 10 hexes separate KB East and my carriers.

Would you or wouldn't you?

I'll post more later, but suffice to say no raid on Pago Pago today. KB is retiring, though a bit slowly and on a more northerly course than anticpated.

Tough decision, this. I've worked to create this opportunity but it is by no means optimal. Prudence or boldness here? What does the game call for? What does the war call for?
If you go bold, try to concentrate your forces such that they do not get distracted by the AO TF. In fact you might bring your CVE/APD TF in from behind KB to split his strikes or, if he does not detect it, to get a little backstab in.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Flicker »

L'audace!
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by paullus99 »

I suspect that CR will turn away on this one - although, it would certainly be doing the unexpected, if he did decide to accept battle.

Very reminiscent of the Battle of Wake, where John stepped into the abyss without knowing if there was anything there.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

1/12/45

KB East: Orders entered, as follows.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel


Tough decision, this. I've worked to create this opportunity but it is by no means optimal. Prudence or boldness here? What does the game call for? What does the war call for?


Best case, 100% loss of all his forces, 0% yours, what do you gain in VPs? What is that relative to other VP opportunities tomorrow? Next week?

Middle case, 50% loss by both of you. He wins on a 2:1 basis and prolongs the game.

Worst case, 0% loss to him, 100% loss to you. How many VPs? x2 to regain status quo. What capabilities do you lose permanently?

The thing I would consider is the date. Dinking around with things like this, or going to Manchuria, getting some, giving some (always at x2), while you creep closer to June 1 without ending this thing. Then you're one summer away from losing any chance of a decisive.

End it. You have the tools and position in Asia to finish the game. Then he can start another, you can focus on your other, or start a second. But this is over. You're just fiddling because you (and he) like to maneuver TFs. That may be fun, but it's not the goal. The goal is to beat Japan. Taking Shanghai is a HUGE move forward in position, AF capability, supply dumpage, and the ability to crank the bombing campaign into 5th gear. Sanitize the region around Shanghai, move in the tonnage, and then the planes, and burn him down. End of game. End of story.

This is a frolic.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

Overcome by time again. [8D]
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by witpqs »

I didn't notice if you said the CVE is spotted. At any rate if he has rendezvoused with the oilers to refuel you just gave a turn to do that without being in range of Allied carriers. [&:]
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

Somehow, Moose, you have developed an idea that this is the main show and that I'm giving it the bulk of my attention. That's not the case. I figured the peanut gallery is most interested in this, a change of pace from day after day and map after map of Coastal China.

But Coastal China is getting the vast majority of my attention. It's clearly the seat of the war. And what's going on in the Pacific won't change what happens in China. It won't slow me down there. It's not diverting units I need to have there. And it's not affecting supply delivery. (I've gone into these things in detail over recent days and months, so I won't delve into it here in detail).

Coastal China is the heart of things.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Canoerebel »

1/12/45

Fancy Pants: Reduction of enemy positions at Shanghai, Nanking, and Lang Son proceeding well. And I'm about to find out if Hong Kong has teeth.

P.S. I mentioned Lang Son. It's important, because once 116th Div. evaporates, a bunch of units are free to help with garrison duty in China or lassoing all those enemy units moving about.


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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Somehow, Moose, you have developed an idea that this is the main show and that I'm giving it the bulk of my attention. That's not the case. I figured the peanut gallery is most interested in this, a change of pace from day after day and map after map of Coastal China.

But Coastal China is getting the vast majority of my attention. It's clearly the seat of the war. And what's going on in the Pacific won't change what happens in China. It won't slow me down there. It's not diverting units I need to have there. And it's not affecting supply delivery. (I've gone into these things in detail over recent days and months, so I won't delve into it here in detail).

Coastal China is the heart of things.

A VP lost anywhere is a VP lost. This is a high risk op relative to strat bombing. If you have a disaster here and lose several thousand VPs, that affects China. You're on a timetable; he isn't.
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Lowpe »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

End it. You have the tools and position in Asia to finish the game. Then he can start another, you can focus on your other, or start a second. But this is over. You're just fiddling because you (and he) like to maneuver TFs. That may be fun, but it's not the goal. ...

This is a frolic.

This.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by DRF99 »

J3 seems to split up the KB into 3 or 4 groups that operate independently.

Is the DS big enough at this date that you could split it in two (not necessarily evenly) so that one DS group would be strong enough to take on and beat one or two of KB's separate groups?
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

Post by Lowpe »

I think Bullwinkle is frustrated. Japan has been on the ropes since before Luzon fell.

To give away a fair bit of ships sunk, to achieve a relative parity CV clash in Jan of 1945 quite frankly is a frolic or worse.

Doesn't really matter what happens in China...what matters is getting fighter bases closer to Honshu and figuring out how you can rack up 1000 vp days thru a focused air campaign. Or at least I would think that, given you have repeatedly stated strategic bombing is goal 1.

There are a lot of ways for the Allies to win...and you like keeping surprises.
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