Red Army: what's with the Sappers squads?

[caliJP]

I am in Jan/Feb 42 and it seems no sapper squads are getting built.
I have some surplus Arm points and some manpower in pool
I am adding like 170K+ men to the Red Army each turn
Yet in the logistics event log it shows exactly 0 Sapper Squads added, which seems to be confirmed by the fact that I have a bunch of Sapper Reg and a few Bdes that have been seating around depleted for many turns.
Smells like yet another nerf. Is there a soviet sapper nerf in there somewhere that I missed?

[thedoctorking]

Interesting. I just looked at a game that I had played up to January 1942, and same thing. In previous turns, I've built 12283 Sapper Squad 41, but now it has a # next to its name. When I look at the Logistics Phase Event Log, 0 are produced in either of the replacement phases. When I look at the unit type detail in the production screen, there are no factories and the build limit is 0, expansion rate 0. It's like they've been obsoleted, but their upgrade path is to Sapper Squad 42 in October 42. Does the USSR not get any new sappers between January and October 1942? Experienced players?

[charlie0311]

Hi guys,

They start to get produced again in Oct.

Denniss is the expert.

[thedoctorking]

So this is a feature, not a bug? The USSR doesn't produce any engineer squads between January and October 1942? Any particular reason or historical justification for this?

[RforRush]

It's a bug, fixed in the coming beta patch.

[Stelteck]

During my game in 1942 i did not even noticed that the sapper production was stopped [:D]

Sapper regiments do not get so much looses during combat. They are not very useful attached to HQ currently, and if you attach them to motorized units such as tank corps, they will get motorized and use 100 trucks so bad. (stay with tank battalion/motorized supports for tank corps).

So you only need sappers for the default 30 cavalry corps until late 1942/1943 where you can consider some for rifle corps and built extra cavalry corps.

So built 100 sapper regiments in 1941 then stopped producing and live with them.

All thing equal, the best support unit is the heavy tank regiment (automaticaly guard) that appear autumn 1942. (Especially useful as heavy tanks are removed from your tank corps&brigades middle 1942 and so if you do not built them, heavy tanks will not be used).

Then you begin in 1943 to have the SU regiments with various tank hunters, all very good, from SU-76 to SU-152mm.

[DesertedFox]

Great advise Steleck. Thx.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

Great advise Steleck. Thx.

OMG DesertedFox! Long time no see. You still in the BIG BIG Red country?

[DesertedFox]

Lol..Howdy HardlUck..mate, I have been absent from wite for 2 years..reason, mate I was emotionally shattered after my last defeat at your hands..lol.

I have recently made a return to wite, timing it nicely with the latest patch. I have just started a game against Psycho.

I left the BIG RED country in Jan this year back home now with wife and kids. Looking forward to wite2 being released and having you hand my arse to me in that version as well.

I have been busy reading up on AARs and yours specially!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read you were going to take a break from wite..good for you. You will come back rested, relaxed and better than ever. Oh wait....hhhmm maybe that is not so good for your opponents. Yeah mate..keep playing, grind your self into mental oblivion!

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: DesertedFox

Lol..Howdy HardlUck..mate, I have been absent from wite for 2 years..reason, mate I was emotionally shattered after my last defeat at your hands..lol.

I have recently made a return to wite, timing it nicely with the latest patch. I have just started a game against Psycho.

I left the BIG RED country in Jan this year back home now with wife and kids. Looking forward to wite2 being released and having you hand my arse to me in that version as well.

I have been busy reading up on AARs and yours specially!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read you were going to take a break from wite..good for you. You will come back rested, relaxed and better than ever. Oh wait....hhhmm maybe that is not so good for your opponents. Yeah mate..keep playing, grind your self into mental oblivion!

Welcome back & wish you the best in your current game! You are an excellent player & I learned some things from you in our games, thank you But realize that the Germans are stronger now then they were two years ago As the title of the thread says about the Sappers there are others things too that gives them the advantage which I'm sure you have read in other posts. Not to mention there are a lot of good minds sharing ideas and comments on this forum which helps all involved. Again, welcome back! Love having you back!

[thedoctorking]

I was building sapper regiments and assigning them to fortress units so they could build big fortification levels more quickly. No evidence that it had much impact, though.

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
I was building sapper regiments and assigning them to fortress units so they could build big fortification levels more quickly. No evidence that it had much impact, though.

It is working. Without sapper (or construction units) the fortified zone built very slowly.
Notice that you need experience sapper or construction units, because newbies do not know what do to with a showel.

[caliJP]

Guys thank you. Wasn't aware of that bug. I have ~150 Sapper Reg probably 40% of them depleted, rather annoying as I could have use my APs for other things.
I usually put one in each Cavalry Corps and then 2-3 in each army to improve digging performance. Eventually they go into the Rifle Corps of those Armies when I build them.
I have recently taken to using the Motorcycle Reg for my Cavalry Corps early on, until I can build Heavy Tank and Separate Tank Regiments in late 42

[Denniss]

Remember that this mass-spreading of Sapper Rgts is completely ahistorical as the Soviets did not have trained manpower for these specialist units. The had very limited amounts of specialized combat sappers but most were stationed on the west front and almost wiped out in the initial german offensive. It took them until late 1942 to buit a Combat Sapper force from scratch.
Those initial Sapper Bn/Rgt should have been construction elements but I didn't implement it as this would alter the play balance.
The date gap in the Sapper Squads is an error/data bug but the effect is desired.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Remember that this mass-spreading of Sapper Rgts is completely ahistorical as the Soviets did not have trained manpower for these specialist units. The had very limited amounts of specialized combat sappers but most were stationed on the west front and almost wiped out in the initial german offensive. It took them until late 1942 to buit a Combat Sapper force from scratch.
Those initial Sapper Bn/Rgt should have been construction elements but I didn't implement it as this would alter the play balance.
The date gap in the Sapper Squads is an error/data bug but the effect is desired.

I hear you, but the fact is that with casualties so low in all these battles, the Soviet player has to find any way to increase the German casualty counts. If it takes 300 sapper regiments, so be it.