Four years later...

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just try this little experiment: go to the WitP: AE forum, or the GG’s WitW one, and try to pipe: « Hey! In four years this game will be still broken, with no working. MP and no AI - but we will have a blast anyway!” Then, please, come back here and tell us how fast you were sent out of the door.

I've got absolutely no idea what that statement is trying to prove or even means. No idea at all.

That, I can see.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Just try this little experiment: go to the WitP: AE forum, or the GG’s WitW one, and try to pipe: « Hey! In four years this game will be still broken, with no working. MP and no AI - but we will have a blast anyway!” Then, please, come back here and tell us how fast you were sent out of the door.

I've got absolutely no idea what that statement is trying to prove or even means. No idea at all.

That, I can see.

warspite1

Thank-you for more facile comments - you kind of specialise in them don't you. Although on reflection they are more dumb than facile.

Why would I go to a forum with a working game and tell them that the game will still be broken in four years (even though its not broken now)?????

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: warspite1



I've got absolutely no idea what that statement is trying to prove or even means. No idea at all.

That, I can see.

warspite1

Thank-you for more facile comments - you kind of specialise in them don't you.

If I don't see the need to waste words I don't do that. I made longer posts in this very thread every time I felt it was needed.

Why would I go to a forum with a working game and tell them that the game will still be broken in four years (even though its not broken now)?????

See the part I but in bold and italics? That's the key point. People here are accepting a status of things that no buyer of those games would ever have accepted.

Have you even read the parts of the Nov, 2017 status report I reported here? I will report again two of them:

Bugs
My task list is completely up-to-date. Sadly, the list is still rather daunting to look at. I’ll be going over it yet again to identify things that deserve to be corrected prior to my assault on the NetPlay bugs. [Well, good to know...]

NetPlay
I’m still holding back to making any serious changes to the code to fix NetPlay-specific bugs. But I am assembling all the notes on bugs and saved games to accompany them.

That's MWiF for you after four years. Are "difficult" words really needed? Yeah, I didn't think so either.

Next time you have $150 to waste, I do have a bridge to sell you. True you need to actually swim to reach the other side. But swimming is fun! (even if your $150 were for a bridge) isn't it?

[pzgndr]

Offhand, I don't feel so much like a beta tester as I feel like an investor. It was my money and my choice to buy this game upon release, knowing full well it did not have the ETO Fascist Tide half map scenario that I really want to play nor a computer opponent which is how I prefer to play. I knew it was going to be a while before I got these two features. I did not expect the wait to be this long, but I continue to patiently wait. They will come eventually, unless something disastrous happens to Steve. Hopefully not.

I was interested in WiF and still am. What were my options? Buy the boardgame. That's more expensive than MWiF, physically huge, and frankly totally unplayable as a newbie with limited time or space to actually play it. MWiF, even with bugs and promised features still missing, offered a path to learn the game at my own pace AND support the developer to continue developing the features I wanted. That's a Win-Win.

I've been buying and playing computer wargames since the 1990s and there are some lessons learned. 1) All games are released with some bugs and missing features. 2) All games require several patches to (mostly) resolve #1. 3) All games sooner or later hit a "pencils Down" point where the developer is basically working for free to provide CPR on an increasingly obsolete game and he needs to move on to the next game engine to make money. Unless he can afford to work for free; most spouses tend to disagree with a decision along these lines.

So. Maybe, perhaps, Matrix Games could/should consider some other options such as offering new games (knowing #1) at a pre-release discount. Maybe that would help. The other option is for customers (also knowing #1 unless they're totally naïve) to NOT buy new games upon release but to prudently wait until #2 happens and/or the game goes on sale or something. But seriously, are folks so naïve to still buy new games and still expect them to be perfect?? Sorry, I got zero sympathy. Wake up and smell the coffee, and reconsider if you really want to buy the shiny new toy and get yourself unnecessarily frustrated about #1 (unless you do consider yourself a willing beta tester volunteer and/or investor) or simply just wait until #2 happens or a sale happens. Or just don't buy/play the game ever until it's dead and unsupported but offered at a dirt cheap price. Pick one. And remember always, it's just a game for entertainment. For fun. Seriously, your life does not depend on a game.

[Dabrion]

That escalated quickly.. I suggest someone goes back to his cozy AAR forum. I am not jerking in your threats there like you do here? Show respect little boy or I will resurrect the Grand Old Lady from the bottom of the Mediterranean to have you punished!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69




That, I can see.

warspite1

Thank-you for more facile comments - you kind of specialise in them don't you.

If I don't see the need to waste words I don't do that. I made longer posts in this very thread every time I felt it was needed.

Why would I go to a forum with a working game and tell them that the game will still be broken in four years (even though its not broken now)?????

See the part I but in bold and italics? That's the key point. People here are accepting a status of things that no buyer of those games would ever have accepted.

Have you even read the parts of the Nov, 2017 status report I reported here? I will report again two of them:

Bugs
My task list is completely up-to-date. Sadly, the list is still rather daunting to look at. I’ll be going over it yet again to identify things that deserve to be corrected prior to my assault on the NetPlay bugs. [Well, good to know...]

NetPlay
I’m still holding back to making any serious changes to the code to fix NetPlay-specific bugs. But I am assembling all the notes on bugs and saved games to accompany them.

That's MWiF for you after four years. Are "difficult" words really needed? Yeah, I didn't think so either.

Next time you have $150 to waste, I do have a bridge to sell you. True you need to actually swim to reach the other side. But swimming is fun! (even if your $150 were for a bridge) isn't it?

warspite1

Yes we've done the car and the plumbing job - and now we have the bridge. We know (how many times can it be explained and agreed with?) that it is not right?

Yes of course I've read the status reports - and they make for unfortunate reading (although if like me you are trying to make the best of a bad situation, and are hoping that things will work out then they are also encouraging as Steve remains committed to the project).

As to the point about what no buyer of WITP-AE or WITW or any other game would have accepted, I am sorry but you are wrong. Totally wrong. You know why? Because people are people, and the reaction those games would have got would have been similar to MWIF. Some players angry they wasted their money who walked away, players angry, but who see the potential and want to play the game, and players who are angry and who only want to bitch, whine and moan. What is slightly different with MWIF is that a lot of the players who continue to stick around do so because they know (from an earlier boardgame) how good this is and why they should stick around. That wouldn't be the case with the other two games I mentioned, but the subject matter means that some people would have stuck with them.

Look at Empires in Arms. I didn't play the board game, and when the game arrived buggy as hell, I couldn't be arsed to stick around for long. I knew from the forum that there may be issues but I went ahead with the purchase anyway. My fault. I hung around for a while and then got fed up. I'm a big boy, I took it like a man and moved on. I didn't hang around moaning and worse, insulting players who were trying their best to stay positive and make it work.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

That escalated quickly.. I suggest someone goes back to his cozy AAR forum. I am not jerking in your threats there like you do here? Show respect little boy or I will resurrect the Grand Old Lady from the bottom of the Mediterranean to have you punished!

warspite1

Well done! Er.... except she's not at the bottom of the Mediterranean [8|]

BTW, I wasn't jerking - as you politely call it, I simply provided an alternate view point while agreeing with the OP's main point. But then certain people had to start throwing their toys out of the pram...again [8|]

[PorcelainBus]

You're the one "throwing their toys out of the pram" supporting the unsupportable. I paid a shit load of money for a game that is unplayable and i'm pissed too. Had a copy of Chris Marinari's (spelling) original and it was better than this abortion of a "game". You seem happy for people to spend their money and "walk away" but challenge anyone who spent their money and are vocal about the rip off "Some players angry they wasted their money who walked away" How does that work for you?
"Players who are angry and who only want to bitch, whine and moan." So you think it's ok for purchasers to be feel ripped off but keep it to themselves?? Speak up and they face the ridicule of Warspite1??
Oh, but you're only providing "an alternate view point while agreeing with the OP's main point" - yet attacking the op as being childish in their view?
I read your AAR and enjoy seeing that you and the other's are enjoying your experience - but don't dictate to me or any others who feel totally ripped off that we are "being childish".

PB

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: PorcelainBus

You're the one "throwing their toys out of the pram" supporting the unsupportable. I paid a shit load of money for a game that is unplayable and i'm pissed too. Had a copy of Chris Marinari's (spelling) original and it was better than this abortion of a "game". You seem happy for people to spend their money and "walk away" but challenge anyone who spent their money and are vocal about the rip off "Some players angry they wasted their money who walked away" How does that work for you?
"players who are angry and who only want to bitch, whine and moan." So you think it's ok for purchasers to be feel ripped off but keep it to themselves?? Speak up and they face the ridicule of Warspite1??
Oh, but you're omly providing "an alternate view point while agreeing with the OP's main point" - yet attacking the op as being childish in their view?
I read your AAR and enjoy seeing that you and the other's are enjoying your experience - but don't dictate to me or any others who feel totally ripped off that we are "being childish".

PB

warspite1

Another one. How about this. I'll type slowly so perhaps you can understand. I suspect not, but hey, it's worth a go.

You seem happy for people to spend their money and "walk away"

Why would I be happy for people to waste their money buying something that was not as advertised? Instead of making puerile comments, why not deal with the facts. Why would you say I am happy given everything I have written?

and are vocal about the rip off

Be as vocal as they like - if that is what they want to do and feel that is good use of their time. So long as they blame those deserving of blame and not consumers who've spent their money.

How does that work for you?

Puerile

So you think it's ok for purchasers to be feel ripped off but keep it to themselves?

No - as I've made clear, the OP voiced his opinion (which I did not say he shouldn't do) and I provided an alternate view. As said, if people want to rant about the situation that is fine. But don't insult people who have also spent good money (but who just try and make the best of things). Acolytes? Amish? Making totally false statements that anyone who is trying to remain positive sees no problem in what has gone before. All that nonsense is what I object to. And you've just added to it.

Oh, but you're omly providing "an alternate view point while agreeing with the OP's main point" - yet attacking the op as being childish in their view?

Please read. As per above, I didn't 'attack' until the nonsense started.

Another attempt: Those of us who are trying to get the game working and who support the project, having shelled out our hard-earned cash, are not the 'guilty' people here. And if by some miracle (well Steve's hard work actually) the game does end up with an AI and netplay etc etc, then there will be no need to thank those of us who are helping.

Another attempt: In trying to stay positive and help the game along, I am not saying what has gone before is correct.

There now - which bit of that crystal clear English do you fail to understand??

[PorcelainBus]

"Another one. How about this. I'll type slowly so perhaps you can understand. I suspect not, but hey, it's worth a go."
"Why would I be happy for people to waste their money buying something that was not as advertised? Instead of making puerile comments, why not deal with the facts. Why would you say I am happy given everything I have written?"

Let me type s l o w l y for you. You "seem" happy because you stated "Some players angry they wasted their money who walked away, players angry, but who see the potential and want to play the game, and players who are angry and who only want to bitch, whine and moan." So you have no problem with the players that are "angry they wasted their money who walked away" - yet you seem fit to challenge players who in your words are "angry and who only want to bitch, whine and moan."

"Be as vocal as they like. So long as they blame those deserving of blame and not consumers who've spent their money."
Yes. you have spent your money but now you are attacking someone who is critical of the end product - what's it to you? Why are you rushing to the defence of those who are deserving of blame?

"Puerile" Seriously? Your defence of the indefensible? Your talk of "throwing their toys out of the pram" Puerile? lol

So you think it's ok for purchasers to be feel ripped off but keep it to themselves?


"No - as I've made clear, the OP voiced his opinion (which I did not say he shouldn't do) and I provided an alternate view. As said, if people want to rant about the situation that is fine. But don't insult people who have also spent good money (but who just try and make the best of things). Acolytes? Amish? Making totally false statements that anyone who is trying to remain positive sees no problem in what has gone before. All that nonsense is what I object to. And you've just added to it."

Provide an alternate view by all means - no-one is unaccepting of that - but when you start attacking the opp for being "in your view" "Thank-you for more facile comments - you kind of specialise in them don't you. Although on reflection they are more dumb than facile." you don't get that you seem like a sycophant?? Again why are you defending the indefensible??

[Dabrion]

As funny as it is to watch Warspite1 do his pivots.. don't get too distracted.

The truth is still: the only people able to give comment in official capacity are Matrix employees. Everything we hear from them since the release is white-washing bullshit, PR brain farts and ofc most of time: *crickets*. Some old folks giving an alternative point of view is worth one more cricket to me. People have been scamed for money and they deserve compensation for that. Matrix even turned down the bare minimum token-compensations like coupons for other Matrix products without compensation of shipping cost or the like. All you get is some scripted 1st level support dudes answer that he copy and pasted from the company FAQ.
To this day they fail to deliver on every single one of their promises. I understand that is also one of RFalvo69s points: they get away with it and don't have to answer for it at all and I can very well understand that. It is not a matter of 150 buck down the drain, it is a matter of principle too. They just sit on their ears and do nothing. Everyone who has kids knows where that leads!

I think Matrix has no more reputation to loose.. and this kind of behaviour probably makes perfect sense to them.a

On a different note: I was talking to Harry about MWiF last year. We changed topics after a couple of sentences and I didn't want to be too impolite (hard to be,lieve i know..). I understand he went to Matrix because he believed they would get the job done, being an established player in the market segment. Harry is not the person that would punish anyone for not getting the job done, but he is also not exactly happy about MWiF. I am glad that he made a good experience with Kickstarter for the CE and in hindsight he should have went that route with the computer version too. But hindsight is always 20/20.

Meanwhile.. white-washing and lowering the bar cannot be the way to victory. There has to be some kind of financial compensation for every customer with grievances or, at the very least, a public flogging of Matrix/Slithering.

[warspite1]

Shall I write Chinese? Japanese? French? What would make the words I write and your understanding fit nicely together in a kind of point - words - reading - understanding type way? I genuinely don't understand how you can be so off base, so out of kilter with what has been said. I'll try a different approach - I'll ask you to explain - maybe that will help.

Again why are you defending the indefensible??

Why are you rushing to the defence of those who are deserving of blame?

Let's start here. What exactly do you think I am defending. And please provide the quote(s).

you don't get that you seem like a sycophant

Where did that come from? Again, please be exact, who and what am I displaying sycophancy towards and please provide the quotes that show this?

when you start attacking the op

You may want to look at the order of things here, although to be honest, if I cannot make you understand the basic points above then this may be a step too far but lets see where we get to.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

As funny as it is to watch Warspite1 do his pivots.. don't get too distracted.

The truth is still: the only people able to give comment in official capacity are Matrix employees. Everything we hear from them since the release is white-washing bullshit, PR brain farts and ofc most of time: *crickets*. Some old folks giving an alternative point of view is worth one more cricket to me. People have been scamed for money and they deserve compensation for that. Matrix even turned down the bare minimum token-compensations like coupons for other Matrix products without compensation of shipping cost or the like. All you get is some scripted 1st level support dudes answer that he copy and pasted from the company FAQ.
To this day they fail to deliver on every single one of their promises. I understand that is also one of RFalvo69s points: they get away with it and don't have to answer for it at all and I can very well understand that. It is not a matter of 150 buck down the drain, it is a matter of principle too. They just sit on their ears and do nothing. Everyone who has kids knows where that leads!

I think Matrix has no more reputation to loose.. and this kind of behaviour probably makes perfect sense to them.a

On a different note: I was talking to Harry about MWiF last year. We changed topics after a couple of lines about the topic and I didn't want to be too impolite (hard to be,lieve i know..). I understand he went to Matrix because he believed they would get the job done, being an established player in the market segment. Harry is not the person that would punish anyone for not getting the job done, but he is also not exactly happy about MWiF. I am glad that he made a good experience with Kickstarter for the CE and in hindsight he should have went that route with the computer version too. But hindsight is always 20/20.

Meanwhile.. white-washing and lowering the bar cannot be the way to victory. There has to be some kind of financial compensation for every customer with grievances or, at the very least, a public flocking of Matrix/Slithering.

warspite1

Dabrion, be very careful now. You actually posted a reasonably coherent post and all without slagging off the acolytes for a change. Well done, that is progress of sorts I guess.

Out of interest, how much do you believe Harry would have needed to raise on Kickstarter and what would that have been used to fund? Are you talking about the whole expected cost up front or what? Interested in your take on that.

[Dabrion]

I don't talk to children about grown-up topics..

[PorcelainBus]

"Shall I write Chinese? Japanese? French? What would make the words I write and your understanding fit nicely together in a kind of point - words - reading - understanding type way? I genuinely don't understand how you can be so off base, so out of kilter with what has been said. I'll try a different approach - I'll ask you to explain - maybe that will help. I genuinely don't inderstand how you don't understand?"

I genuinely don't understand how you don't understand? When a donkey brays it's best not to bray back????

Enjoy your game . . . .

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I don't talk to children about grown-up topics..

warspite1

Thank-you. Or in other words, you have not a clue about the topic. A bit like your knowledge of WWII. Good work. Oh and good luck in trying to find HMS Warspite in the Mediterranean eh?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: PorcelainBus

"Shall I write Chinese? Japanese? French? What would make the words I write and your understanding fit nicely together in a kind of point - words - reading - understanding type way? I genuinely don't understand how you can be so off base, so out of kilter with what has been said. I'll try a different approach - I'll ask you to explain - maybe that will help. I genuinely don't inderstand how you don't understand?"

I genuinely don't understand how you don't understand? When a donkey brays it's best not to bray back????

Enjoy your game . . . .

warspite1

Well you don't understand English so I have no reason to believe you understand donkey so best to leave the braying to those that do.

I will thank-you.

[PorcelainBus]

Enjoy your wage - être heureux avec le cul de succion

[zakblood]

all posts have been copied and also reported, so editing after the event won't matter either as i've saved them post edited

edited, and sent to admin to sort out, file of pre reported posts attached

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: PorcelainBus

Enjoy your wage - être heureux avec le cul de succion

warspite1

[:)]

And thank-you for proving my point. You can't understand, you can't answer my questions without confirming that you don't understand, and so you write that. Well done .