tyronec (Axis) vs Grognard1812. Grognard welcome.

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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Grognard1812
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RE: T2

Post by Grognard1812 »

Soviet Game Turn 2

Tactical retreats everywhere.

1) Solid defenses were setup around Pskov to block the Axis route to Leningrad
2) A 3 unit deep checkerboard defense at the land bridge between Vitebsk and Smolensk was setup blocking
the quickest Axis route to Moscow
3) Only light defenses were setup around Kiev and West of the Dnepr River, due to a general lack of units
in the area. The large Lvov pocket was very painful.

The 6th Cavalry Division made a mad dash for the Pripyat marshes, reopening the pocket North of the Pripyat marshes
and removing from an isolated status 9 Divisions and 2 Brigades. This will hopefully slow down the
German advance in the area a bit.


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RE: T2

Post by bigbaba »

grognard do you fly recon missions and when yes did you identify the location of his panzerdivisions? are they more in the north, center or south?
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Grognard1812
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RE: T2

Post by Grognard1812 »

During the first 2 turns I did many recon missions in the areas where I was trying to open pockets, and less
in other areas. My sense after I sent back GT 2 was that he had evenly divided his PzCorps amongst AGN, AGC and
AGS.
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tyronec
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RE: T3

Post by tyronec »

T3.
AGN. Stavka continues the retreat around Pskov. My panzers are down to 25MPs and I don't see much opportunity to do serious damage so will work to flip as much easy terrain as possible and wait for the infantry to arrive.

AGC. More hassles, he has broken out of my AGC pocket which while it doesn't effect my advance it does require sealing the pocket again and screening with infantry.
PG2 (1 corps) will move up towards the land bridge and PG3 continue the advance north of the river.

AGS. South of the marshes that armoured division has got well away however the main defence line is 40 miles West of the river, so perhaps it caused him to hold back and keep it covered.
It looks like there are strong forces facing AGS, PG3 and 6th army will continue the advance towards Kiev and the river and will maybe push his front line back a little.

Romania. It doesn't look like Odessa is garrisoned, will try and take the city and also advance across the Bug. So all out attack down south. 17th army and the Romanians should get most of the L'Vov pocket cleaned out.

Air war. Will bomb some airbases around Pskov and see what damage I can do.


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tyronec
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RE: T3

Post by tyronec »

AGN. PG4 cross the river and wait. Still two units to mop up West of Riga.

AGC. PG2 with one corps advances to the land bridge. PG3 pushes through the defences north of the river and advances 40 miles. There is nothing in front so we send 20th Mot. forward another 30 miles, I expect they will get surrounded but I don't think STAVKA can muster enough to rout them without throwing their defensive line into chaos and having them there should facilitate my advance next turn. The second Pz. corps of PG3 rests and should have 40-50 MPs next turn to either support AGC or AGN.
I have about 6 infantry divisions sealing off the broken pocket but otherwise it is not effecting me much.


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RE: T3

Post by tyronec »

AGS. As PG2 advances towards the Dnepr and breaks through the first line of defence (first map) there doesn't seem to be much in reserve, so they attack all out with both corps and are able to advance to the river with 10th Mot and release the cavalry to trip the airbases on the other side (second map). All my transports are following up here so am able to refuel both advanced divisions.
Am not sure what he will do with all the divisions around Kiev but they are at risk of being cut off if next turn I can cut the railways at Chernigov & Gomel. Unfortunately am not set up to do much of a left hook from AGC though that should improve in a couple of turns.

Romanian front. PG1 take Odessa and cross the Bug. Half of these divisions have full fuel having just come off the railway so there is a threat if STAVKA do not retreat. The fight continues in the L'Vov pocket, have a few large stacks on cities which take some shifting. Not sure which holds the Axis up for longer, a few strong points or a defensive line but there are less combats this way.

Have tried to cover my flanks as well as possible, will see if Grognard manages to mess me up somewhere for a third turn in a row.

Air war. Fighter sweeps and airbase bombing scores 391 for 38; all around Pskov and Kiev. My fighter sweeps are doing less damage than in the game against HardLuck, I presume because Grognard's air force is less fatigued without all the kamikaze bombing. I get another 50 during Soviet ground support and the cavalry overrun 100. Final score: 553 for 46.

Admin. Security divisions transferred to OKH. A few more leader upgrades, all my best leaders are now active. SUs pushed up the line. Most of my reorganisation is done until the winter, so have started saving for HQBs.

STAVKA is down to 2.97m troops, if this goes on they should all evaporate before the winter and we can walk into Moscow.


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RE: T3

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Air war. Fighter sweeps and airbase bombing scores 391 for 38; all around Pskov and Kiev. My fighter sweeps are doing less damage than in the game against HardLuck, I presume because Grognard's air force is less fatigued without all the kamikaze bombing. I get another 50 during Soviet ground support and the cavalry overrun 100. Final score: 553 for 46.

38 fighters or 38 combination of all aircraft?

your final total is 46 fighters or 46 combination of all aircraft?

Same for Soviets? Could you break it out please :). Thank you much.

My goal in my experiment in our match was to go after your fighters since that is the key imo to the German airforce. I will kamikaze the whole of the Soviet Air to dwindle that number. By turn 7 there were 385 German Fighter loses and 58 German Fighter bombers loses. I don't believe that is the goal of Grognard1812 which I'm assuming is going a more traditional route. Of course Grognard is a very good player too :}
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tyronec
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RE: T3

Post by tyronec »

38 fighters or 38 combination of all aircraft?

your final total is 46 fighters or 46 combination of all aircraft?

Can't remember but think it was mostly fighters and a few bombers. Will have a look and publish the losses next time it is my turn.
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RE: T3

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: tyronec
38 fighters or 38 combination of all aircraft?

your final total is 46 fighters or 46 combination of all aircraft?

Can't remember but think it was mostly fighters and a few bombers. Will have a look and publish the losses next time it is my turn.


Thank you Sir in advance :)
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RE: T3

Post by Grognard1812 »

Hi HardLuckYetAgain. I actually did save a screenshot of the air loses at the end of GT 3, as I was planning
on using it as part of the Soviet input for the AAR. The Soviet air force took heavy casualties on GT 3 losing
a total of 764 planes of all types vs 62 for the Axis.



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RE: T3

Post by Grognard1812 »

The air war became serious on GT3 when Tyronec used a tactic I havn't encountered before. He attacked units and
some air bases using only large number of fighters in an apparent attempt to shot down intercepting Soviet
fighters. The screen shot below shows one air battle where 126 German fighters were intercepted by 57 older type
Soviet fighters and 21 Soviet fighters were downed with no losses to the German fighters.

Not sure how to counter this tactic, as at this rate the Soviet air force will be reduced to just production levels
in a few months. Will be transferring in large numbers of more recent type Soviet fighter Air Groups (Mig3, Lagg3),
as the I-15 and I-16 fighters are not effective. Also considering changing the Air Doctrine to 'turn off ground
support' and increasing the fighter intercept from 75% to 100-200% to increase the number of Soviet fighters
intercepting the attacking German fighters. Not sure if this will just worsen the Soviet plane losses.



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RE: T3

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

The air war became serious on GT3 when Tyronec used a tactic I havn't encountered before. He attacked units and
some air bases using only large number of fighters in an apparent attempt to shot down intercepting Soviet
fighters. The screen shot below shows one air battle where 126 German fighters were intercepted by 57 older type
Soviet fighters and 21 Soviet fighters were downed with no losses to the German fighters.

Not sure how to counter this tactic, as at this rate the Soviet air force will be reduced to just production levels
in a few months. Will be transferring in large numbers of more recent type Soviet fighter Air Groups (Mig3, Lagg3),
as the I-15 and I-16 fighters are not effective. Also considering changing the Air Doctrine to 'turn off ground
support' and increasing the fighter intercept from 75% to 100-200% to increase the number of Soviet fighters
intercepting the attacking German fighters. Not sure if this will just worsen the Soviet plane losses.



Image

A few options (I'm sure others can chime in with better ideas than myself)

1. Don't fly anything and conserve the Red Air Force to a future date and build up strength.

or

2. Set up Red Air Force further to the rear to force Germans to fly greater distance with fewer Sorties and gain more fatigue for the Germans

or

3. You can "aggressively" counter with air settings @ 300% interception for fighters.

All have their pro's and con's. The end result is is that you will loose a great many aircraft no matter what you do. Just my 2 cents is try to gain some small benefit in what ever you do. I'm sure others will be able to chime with some good advice here.

Thank you much!
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RE: T3

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

Just a note, I hope you two are playing at least a few turns ahead ;-)
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RE: T3

Post by tyronec »

Just a note, I hope you two are playing at least a few turns ahead ;-)
We are playing one move ahead. I wanted to do it this way in the hope of stimulating some debate and players being able to respond to any suggestions - so am looking forward to Grognard trying something different to see how that works.

My air strategy is bomb any air bases that are near the front, so that STAVKA either run out of planes or have to pull back and leave me free to support the land war. Have never played past '41 but would not expect this approach to work into '42 as the Soviet air force gets stronger.

Had some good practice in our game playing against an aggressive Soviet air force to hopefully my technique has improved a little. Think I was moving my fighters too near to the front line. Axis fighters shouldn't be flying too many missions a turn (to keep fatigue down) so there is no need to be closer than 15 hexes or so to the target and still get maximum use. Fatigue is generated more by combat than distance flown.
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RE: T4

Post by tyronec »

T4.
Grognard is retreating on all fronts, and success - no pockets broken this turn! Am not unhappy with the retreat, will restrict prospects of catching some units but another turn of free advances gets me closer to Moscow without a fight.
He has done a little ground bombing, Luftwaffe shot down 43 for 2 fighters.

AGN. Will flip as much terrain as possible, establishing a threat from the Baltic down to south of Lake Ilmen.

AGC. Flip more terrain. Will move AGC last so I can see what is developing with AGS, I may wasn’t to set up to encircle the Pripyat marshes next turn.
Finish mopping up the Minsk pocket.

AGS. My cavalry have 37 MPs while my armour west of the river has 25-30. 10th Motorised have 90% fuel but only 30 MPs; Schweppenburg needs to pull his socks up. 6th army will just get to the river this turn. I don't think I have the movement points to drive north and reach Gomel so will see if I can trap a unit or two somewhere.

Romania. LAH has 99% fuel and only 31 MPs, would usually expect 40 MPs. There are a couple of opportunities: I could drive towards Z'town and perhaps do an HQB, threatening some sort of pocket next turn OR cut north and try and encircle a few units around Cherkassy. Either way the infantry are a long way behind and supplies re stretched. Looking more closely at the map there may be a chance to cross the minor river to the south where it is undefended and roll up the defensive line from there, perhaps making a small pocket.

Air war. There are nearly 4 good stacks with good fighters around Leningrad so will switch my attack to AGC this turn.


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tyronec
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RE: T4

Post by tyronec »

AGN. No serious combat, PG4 leads the advance and I leave one Pz. Corps from PG3 to rest and recharge. The Finns start to convert northern Russia to democracy.


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RE: T4

Post by tyronec »

AGC. Again almost no combat. I only have two Pz. Corps, one advances and pushes back a couple of infantry divisions, the other rests. All pockets have been cleared out.


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RE: T4

Post by tyronec »

AGS. I had underestimated the movement points for PG2 to cross the river into a zone of control so have to use the cavalry to clear the East bank. One Pz. Corps is left on each side of the river and 6th Army is almost there.
17th Army is still mopping up L'Vov, almost done.

Romania. I do my right hook and rout a few paratroops and cavalry but don't have enough strength to make a pocket so Wiking is sent on sweep behind Soviet front lines. Soviets have been retreating too fast to make a serious attempt to pocket anything.

Air war. I transfer all my fighters that were up north to around Vitebsk (the bombers don't need to move) and launch heavy attacks on air bases, scoring 440 for 16. The fighters are doing well.
In the south I do a similar manoeuvre and switch the attack from Kiev to D'town, getting 185 for 25 which is not bad as half my losses are Romanians. Then Wiking manages to trip all the Soviet air bases for another 350, total for the turn is 980 for 48.

STAVKA is up to 3.2m which is heading in a more normal direction but still the lowest I have ever seen for T4, not as if they have lost more units than usual. (NOTE this was written before the various discussions in the forum today)


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RE: T4

Post by tyronec »

Air losses at the start of T5, no shortage if air frames in the pool.

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RE: T4

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: tyronec

Air losses at the start of T5, no shortage if air frames in the pool.

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Ya, well ahead in the Air War with minimal loses. Nicely done.
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