The Full Monty

[LargeSlowTarget]

Originally posted by Drongo
Posted by Genda


I haven't studied the Pearl Harbour attack in detail but weren't 3 USN BBs hit by the special "shallow depth" torps?

Or was I thinking of the film?

Morison states:
West Virgina 5-6 torp hits, sunk
Arizona at least 1, exploded after bomb hits
Nevada 1, beached after additional bomb hits
Oklahoma 5, capsized
California 2, sunk
Utah 2, capsized
Raleigh 1, damaged
Helena 1, damaged
Oglala capsized after taking 'collateral damage' from same torp that hit Helena

18 hits from 40 torpedo-carrying Kates on surprised stationary targets - not bad, but perhaps not too impressive either?

[Genda]

Pennsylvania in dry dock and the "inboard" Tennessee and Maryland were spared torpedo attacks. All three left PH for the west coast for repairs and refits less than 2 weeks from the attack, Dec. 20. The biggest problem was getting them out of the mess left by the torpedoed BBs. Maryland was back in active service in two months! The "lucky" hit on Arizona aside, I dont think you can compare bomb damage to torpedo damage and I bet the game programmers have factored that into the damage on done on ships throughout the game.

If the scenario Mogami is playing is considered the classic historical attack, I think programers could flag the data files on those ships to prevent torpedo attack on Dec 7 and remove the flag on Dec. 8. If this is not a historic scenario, then I would agree that anything goes, including the carriers being in port or the whole fleet being on manuevers well south of Hawaii.

Waiting patiently for the game to be released!

Genda

[pad152]

Ships that are sunk at Peal, do you get any message or get to select on which ships may be salvaged or refloated?

Or is this feature not in the game yet?

[ADavidB]

Mogami -

From your notes, it seems like the Allied Airpower early in the game was doing fairly well against Japanese transports. Do you think that is because of aggressive play on your part, or are those aircraft doing better than they did historically?

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

[mogami]

Originally posted by ADavidB
Mogami -

From your notes, it seems like the Allied Airpower early in the game was doing fairly well against Japanese transports. Do you think that is because of aggressive play on your part, or are those aircraft doing better than they did historically?

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

Hi, I think it was several factors.

First the Japanese stayed out of range in the war so there were no targets to sink. I sailed well into range without air cover.
(For every mission I posted there were 5-6 with out hits so I edited them out) (So it appears they were more accurate then they were)

[Snigbert]

Also, at PH some of the BBs that were sunk were later refloated and refit for battle. That wont be possible to represent in WitP either. It's a small thing but it would add too much programming/development to say 'what if we gave any ship sunk in a harbor a certain chance of being rebuilt?'.

Just a thought I had reading about certain BBs being hit by torps that were not in a position to be hit.

[wobbly]

Originally posted by Mogami
Feb 1942 should be very interesting (turn 50 required 4 hours. The longest since turn 1)

ye gads - thats serious time for one turn!!

IMHO that is too long for a turn based game - is this alot more than normal or only slightly above average.

I also like watching the combat replay, (due to info only being available in combat replay) I will be at that for a very extended period it seems.

The worst thing about UV at the moment is the ease at which you forget one base or squadron only to find it has fatigued itself out of play. I could imagine myself doing this with so much to look after. (I know CAP has less fatigue issues now though)

What aspects to the control system has Matrix introduced to lessen the micromanagement?

[mogami]

Originally posted by wobbly
ye gads - thats serious time for one turn!!

IMHO that is too long for a turn based game - is this alot more than normal or only slightly above average.

I also like watching the combat replay, (due to info only being available in combat replay) I will be at that for a very extended period it seems.

The worst thing about UV at the moment is the ease at which you forget one base or squadron only to find it has fatigued itself out of play. I could imagine myself doing this with so much to look after. (I know CAP has less fatigue issues now though)

What aspects to the control system has Matrix introduced to lessen the micromanagement?

Hi, I'd say most turns for me last from 30-40 minutes (not counting combat I mean my orders phase) Turn 50 was one where I made orders for a new operation and had to transfer a great number of ships/units/airgroups as well as "tidy up" areas that had gone inactive (14th and 25th army) Also I began a major reorganization of my transport fleet (Moved float planes to do ASW search and escorts)

4 hours to plan an operation that will use most of the fleet. (its larger then the Midway Operation)

[Fred98]

Originally posted by Mogami

4 hours to plan an operation that will use most of the fleet. (its larger then the Midway Operation)

You do understand that this is still a game killer.

In UV for me an AVERAGE turn is 30 mins.

[Zakhal]

What aspects to the control system has Matrix introduced to lessen the micromanagement?

Shorter scenarios with less operational area, less units and less years to lumber through. If you hit the full war from start youre about take a load on your shoulders, especially at the start, especially if your japanese.

It was somwhat similar in pacwar too. Planning for the first opening turn took long (for japanese) comparing to (certain amount of) turns after that when your plans were been executed and all you had to do was press the turn button and do only slight adjustments.

Witp is in the superheavy class of strategy wargames, but you can still skip the full war and play the smaller scenarios instead which wont be so demanding on time.

[ADavidB]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, I think it was several factors.

First the Japanese stayed out of range in the war so there were no targets to sink. I sailed well into range without air cover.
(For every mission I posted there were 5-6 with out hits so I edited them out) (So it appears they were more accurate then they were)

Okay, great! ( I was afraid that the "anti-bomber" folks would start to clammer for less effective bombers again. )

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

[mogami]

Originally posted by Joe 98
You do understand that this is still a game killer.

In UV for me an AVERAGE turn is 30 mins.

Hi, Game Killer?

I Want the entire Pacific War
I Want Production
I Want the Sub War
I Want detail,and I want to be able to do the longest turn in under 1 hour.


(It's what I like the most about the game. I'm not in a race)

[Fred98]

Whilst the fans of naval warfare will love it, please think of the fans of wargaming.

Which continues my other argument - wargames should be made with "maybe" wargamers in mind - to turn them wargamers.

I am a land based wargamer. But I am a "maybe" naval wargamer.

I enjoy UV - and with the editor I can have less carriers and a wonderful campaign. But it really needed to go down a level rather than up a level to make me keen.

A 4 hour turn will interfere with all my other Matrix wargames - Korsun Pocket, Battlefields, UV, Allied Assault, Combat Leader - all set on terra firma

[U2]

While I have not yet had a 4 hour turn I am sure I will someday...let's say I have something BIG planned. However as I said so far no such turns for me and I think we all know and appreciate Mogami's attention to details and that is also how he plays.

Let's also remember the smaller scenarios that will be included for the customers. I am quite sure they will be enjoyed even by the "campaign guys" like myself. Actually I and Kid are currently testing a smaller 42-43 scen and we both enjoy playing/testing it greatly.

My average UV turn is 5-10 minutes....that is just the way I play and by some miracle I don't loose very often:D Same thing goes for WitP ( as in fast not 5-10 min ) though I must check for bugs and stuff means it takes longer.

[Cap Mandrake]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Game Killer?

I Want the entire Pacific War
I Want Production
I Want the Sub War
I Want detail,and I want to be able to do the longest turn in under 1 hour.


(It's what I like the most about the game. I'm not in a race)

"Under 1 hour".....eek is right! For those of us without a brain the size of a weather balloon, we will need some memory prompts. One doable player aid might be to allow a player-designated text name for TF's......Like "Palembang Assault" or "Singapore shuttle" etc. I might be tempted to keep an easel and paper with land forces organizational tables and designated objectives nearby. To be able to call up a page or pages with that info from the computer would be a real aid too I suspect that WITP has a "land forces" button, but it is not organized in that fashion. BTW...are cross HQ attachment of land units allowed?



With the exception of Wake and Luzon, the good guys seem to be throwing in the towel too easily.

[TIMJOT]

Hi Mogami

This isnt meant as a reality rant, I realize its just an Alpha test, but I just want to understand the initial deployment conditions. Particularly, how can there be an attack on Lunganville on the first day of the war? Is it something you rigged for the test? Or are deployments going to be somehow varible?

As an aside, I really hate to see Wellingtons in Batavia, Blenheims yes, but I do not believe Wellingtons were ever deployed in the Pacific, not sure but maybe in India. In any case certainly not in 1941. Its no small difference, Wellingtons were far superior a/c to the Blenhiem.

Is part of your mandate as a tester also to offer input on OOB and deployment mistakes or is that something that 2by3 is handling themselves?

Again not a rant just looking for some insite.

Thanks

[mogami]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/26/42
Japanese forces CAPTURE Namlea base !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*******************************************************************************
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/27/42

Sub attack at 143,51

Japanese Ships
SS I-7, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage (sunk)

Allied Ships
APD Humphrey
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 95,90

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 16
A6M2 Zero x 17
D3A Val x 15
B5N Kate x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AO Kankakee, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
AK Mungana
TK Admiral Wiley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF at 95,90

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 16
A6M2 Zero x 16
D3A Val x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val x 1 damaged

Allied Ships
TK Admiral Wiley, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AO Kankakee, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese forces CAPTURE Sinkep Island base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 204
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
********************************************************************************
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/28/42

********************************************************************************
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/29/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 44,40 2 cut off Chinese Corps are destroyed.

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 71669 troops, 816 guns, 17 vehicles

Defending force 15410 troops, 121 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 22 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 21419
Guns lost 140
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Sinkep Island Island now secure

Japanese ground losses:
Men lost 102

Allied ground losses:
Men lost 1214
Guns lost 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese forces CAPTURE Maumere base !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
********************************************************************************
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/30/42

[mogami]

Originally posted by TIMJOT
Hi Mogami

This isnt meant as a reality rant, I realize its just an Alpha test, but I just want to understand the initial deployment conditions. Particularly, how can there be an attack on Lunganville on the first day of the war? Is it something you rigged for the test? Or are deployments going to be somehow varible?

As an aside, I really hate to see Wellingtons in Batavia, Blenheims yes, but I do not believe Wellingtons were ever deployed in the Pacific, not sure but maybe in India. In any case certainly not in 1941. Its no small difference, Wellingtons were far superior a/c to the Blenhiem.

Is part of your mandate as a tester also to offer input on OOB and deployment mistakes or is that something that 2by3 is handling themselves?

Again not a rant just looking for some insite.

Thanks

Hi, Luganville and other bases are exploits of current Alpha system for first turn movement.

The Wellingtons were also included and PacWar and always presented me with a problem (I liked them as Allies and hated them when I was Japan)

[TIMJOT]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, Luganville and other bases are exploits of current Alpha system for first turn movement.

The Wellingtons were also included and PacWar and always presented me with a problem (I liked them as Allies and hated them when I was Japan)

Thanks for the clarification Mogami. I wouldnt mind the Wellingtons so much if they started as Blenhiems, then upgraded to Wellingtons. No way that the Brits were going to deploy Wellingtons, a frontline a/c, to the FarEast prior to the war's start.

[herbieh]

Im poor, Ok, cant afford a room full of games, as one game costs as much as I have to spend on myself in a month.
UV is the greatest game Ive ever played.
Now we have lots and lots of arguments about the long campaign game, but what seems to have slipped under a lot of peoples radar is the fact that this fabulous game will have heaps of mini, or even same sized UV games in it!
No mention yet of what scenerios(mini games) will be included, but I can guess, the invasion of the Phillipines, probably end of 42 to end 43, , Japan invasion, who knows.
the point is, how can you resist buying a game which actually is 4 or 5 UV games, plus a grand campaign, plus an editor.Now that I can afford!
I reckon that come next year, we will be having our cake and eating it too, playing Hirotios wet dream if we want to, or trying to better the bitter historical outcome Japan faced ,if we want to, starting with massive Pearl harbour attacks, if we want to, or not, if we want.
Find a like minded apponent, and go for it!

Me, my biggest concern is beating Wobbly in UV before this game comes out:D