Railway repair

[FaneFlugt]

Apart from the intrinsic repair factor in scenarios, some scenarios also have specific rail repair units. If they can only move by rail, do you then have to unembark them for them to have a go at repairing the rail? or can they do it while in railmode? and what is the repair range of such a unit? is it the rail in front of it? or is it within an area?

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: FaneFlugt.DK

Apart from the intrinsic repair factor in scenarios, some scenarios also have specific rail repair units. If they can only move by rail, do you then have to unembark them for them to have a go at repairing the rail? or can they do it while in railmode? and what is the repair range of such a unit? is it the rail in front of it? or is it within an area?

a) Yes, auto-rail repair can be defined with events (see my Tutorial '41 scenario)
b) If RR repair units are embarked, they do the job; no need to disembark them (see Steve's D21 scenario). They repair the railroad that's adjacent to their actual position on the railhead. They can repair just one per turn.
c) Sometimes RR engineers are assigned to higher echelon HQs or are separate units of labour/construction battalions (think about the FDB unit in WitE, the detached RAD, Eisenbahnpioniere, etc.). The latter units you can use to leap-frog repair, i.e. one unti repairs a part of the track, the other moves ahead and repairs another one, etc.
d) I will do some logistic tutorial in the setting of the Tutorial '41 environment as soon the basic tutorial lesson is over.

Klink, Oberst

[sanderz]

Sorry Oberst_Klink but still more questions on this as i don't quite follow what you are saying......

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

a) Yes, auto-rail repair can be defined with events (see my Tutorial '41 scenario)

So there is no "on map" unit associated with this - it just happens?

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
b) If RR repair units are embarked, they do the job; no need to disembark them (see Steve's D21 scenario). They repair the railroad that's adjacent to their actual position on the railhead. They can repair just one per turn.

The manual says "The attempt will consume the unit’s entire movement allowance" --- does this mean "remaining movement allowance" or that the unit moves one turn and then next turn (provided it doesn't move again) that it repairs the next adjacent rail hex?

If it takes an entire movement allowance then does this effectively mean only 1 repair every 2 turns? Which would seem to be very slow.

Also the manual says "attempt to repair damaged Railroads in their location" - i assume this is wrong.

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
c) Sometimes RR engineers are assigned to higher echelon HQs or are separate units of labour/construction battalions (think about the FDB unit in WitE, the detached RAD, Eisenbahnpioniere, etc.). The latter units you can use to leap-frog repair, i.e. one unti repairs a part of the track, the other moves ahead and repairs another one, etc.

So there is a second type of unit??? e.g. where you move the unit and it instantly auto repairs (rather than at the end of the turn)? Or is there an order you need to give it that does the instant repair? Does it also need to be in embark mode or can it move normally? How do you tell which type of engineer is which? I couldn't see any reference to this in the manual.

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
d) I will do some logistic tutorial in the setting of the Tutorial '41 environment as soon the basic tutorial lesson is over.

Thankyou - looking forward too it [:)]

[FaneFlugt]

Thanks for the answer... must be a statistical anomaly that my Rumanian rail crew failed 4 turns of repair with a succes rate of 57 % while embarked. Kind of annoyed me, since if you need things fixed the hard industrial way, in the EU, you hire Rumanians.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: FaneFlugt.DK

Thanks for the answer... must be a statistical anomaly that my Rumanian rail crew failed 4 turns of repair with a succes rate of 57 % while embarked. Kind of annoyed me, since if you need things fixed the hard industrial way, in the EU, you hire Rumanians.

There's always the D10 or D20 dice roll... in case you know challenges from AD&D, Fahnenflüchtiger LOL

[FaneFlugt]

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

ORIGINAL: FaneFlugt.DK

Thanks for the answer... must be a statistical anomaly that my Rumanian rail crew failed 4 turns of repair with a succes rate of 57 % while embarked. Kind of annoyed me, since if you need things fixed the hard industrial way, in the EU, you hire Rumanians.

There's always the D10 or D20 dice roll... in case you know challenges from AD&D, Fahnenflüchtiger LOL

Haha, sure do, we all "FaneFlugt" from time to time

[sPzAbt653]

It sounds like you may be playing Directive 21. If so, there is a 'Directive 21 Background Briefing' doc in the scenario folder. See section 43 for a description of rail repair in this scenario.

[FaneFlugt]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

It sounds like you may be playing Directive 21. If so, there is a 'Directive 21 Background Briefing' doc in the scenario folder. See section 43 for a description of rail repair in this scenario.

Thats the one, great scenario, apart from the 197th german inf HQ that dosent have any trucks [:@] but in such a large scenario something have to go wrong [:D] I have read the word file and it has a section about rail repair but it is not that well explained. Does anyone know what the oil well symbol in Rumania does in that scenario? i get the mine in Finland but the oil well is not mentioned in the scenario explanation?

[sPzAbt653]

None of the 'second line' Inf HQ's have trucks on purpose, to reflect the decline in German Transport Assets.

The Rail Repair units have a game engine chance to repair rail lines, in addition to their visible percentage. So if you crunch percentage numbers they will be off. These Rail Units [Bautrupps] work the same as they do in any other scenario with regards to repair. Making them Rail Only Movement [probably specific to this scenario and D41] makes them easier to manage, but a side effect is that sometimes players start over thinking and get confused. If you spread them out all over the place, most likely few will get repaired. The less areas that you have them in, statistically the more repairs you get. The design is intended to give the Germans three decent lines [AGN, AGS and AGC] that will be repaired to the front by summer of 1942. If you concentrate on only two, or one, things will go a little faster. Hope this helps.

Ploesti is explained in the Supply Section on page 4 of the Scenario Briefing. Note there are two docs with this scenario, both found in the Scenario Folder.

[sanderz]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
......but a side effect is that sometimes players start over thinking and get confused.........

Maybe that's because none of the posts here, or the manual, or the Directive 21 notes actually explain in sufficient detail how this process works.

[Oberst_Klink]

ORIGINAL: sanderz

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
......but a side effect is that sometimes players start over thinking and get confused.........

Maybe that's because none of the posts here, or the manual, or the Directive 21 notes actually explain in sufficient detail how this process works.

I will shortly have created a pure logistics tutorial set on my Tutorial '41 environment, including slides. So, stay tuned and check my thread out on a regular base. I will include RR Repair units, supply and logistic units, how weather, etc. effects those vital nuts'n bolts of the game engine.

Klink, Oberst

[sanderz]

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

ORIGINAL: sanderz

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
......but a side effect is that sometimes players start over thinking and get confused.........

Maybe that's because none of the posts here, or the manual, or the Directive 21 notes actually explain in sufficient detail how this process works.

I will shortly have created a pure logistics tutorial set on my Tutorial '41 environment, including slides. So, stay tuned and check my thread out on a regular base. I will include RR Repair units, supply and logistic units, how weather, etc. effects those vital nuts'n bolts of the game engine.

Klink, Oberst

thanks again Oberst_Klink - will do

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: sanderz

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
......but a side effect is that sometimes players start over thinking and get confused.........

Maybe that's because none of the posts here, or the manual, or the Directive 21 notes actually explain in sufficient detail how this process works.

We shouldn't have to post it repeatedly when it is documented with the scenario. The Manual will not address specific scenarios when it comes to scenario specific modifications.
From the Directive 21 Background Briefing:
43. Bautrupp:
These units are for railroad repair and were designed specifically for easier playability. They can move only by rail, and will repair damaged rail lines nearest their location. Repairs take place automatically between turns, and require no action by the player. A bautrupp unit need not be directly adjacent to broken rail lines in order to make repairs, just nearby or in the vicinity. It should be sufficient to keep these units several hexes behind the front and out of harms way. The game engine repairs rail hexes each turn automatically, and it will tend to focus on broken rail lines near any bautrupp units. Therefore, the player can easily channel rail repairs to specific important areas. They will all reconstruct.

It is clear as can be. If you don't understand this, I can't help you.

[FaneFlugt]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

None of the 'second line' Inf HQ's have trucks on purpose, to reflect the decline in German Transport Assets.

The Rail Repair units have a game engine chance to repair rail lines, in addition to their visible percentage. So if you crunch percentage numbers they will be off. These Rail Units [Bautrupps] work the same as they do in any other scenario with regards to repair. Making them Rail Only Movement [probably specific to this scenario and D41] makes them easier to manage, but a side effect is that sometimes players start over thinking and get confused. If you spread them out all over the place, most likely few will get repaired. The less areas that you have them in, statistically the more repairs you get. The design is intended to give the Germans three decent lines [AGN, AGS and AGC] that will be repaired to the front by summer of 1942. If you concentrate on only two, or one, things will go a little faster. Hope this helps.

Ploesti is explained in the Supply Section on page 4 of the Scenario Briefing. Note there are two docs with this scenario, both found in the Scenario Folder.

Ok, now it makes more sense... and I found the second document. Hidden away in "my documents" folder and not under the TOAW folder... [&:]

[sanderz]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

ORIGINAL: sanderz

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
......but a side effect is that sometimes players start over thinking and get confused.........

Maybe that's because none of the posts here, or the manual, or the Directive 21 notes actually explain in sufficient detail how this process works.

We shouldn't have to post it repeatedly when it is documented with the scenario. The Manual will not address specific scenarios when it comes to scenario specific modifications.
From the Directive 21 Background Briefing:
43. Bautrupp:
These units are for railroad repair and were designed specifically for easier playability. They can move only by rail, and will repair damaged rail lines nearest their location. Repairs take place automatically between turns, and require no action by the player. A bautrupp unit need not be directly adjacent to broken rail lines in order to make repairs, just nearby or in the vicinity. It should be sufficient to keep these units several hexes behind the front and out of harms way. The game engine repairs rail hexes each turn automatically, and it will tend to focus on broken rail lines near any bautrupp units. Therefore, the player can easily channel rail repairs to specific important areas. They will all reconstruct.

It is clear as can be. If you don't understand this, I can't help you.

its not clear at all - because if you click on the button that opens the scenario documentation it opens the "Scenario briefing" which does not include the wording above - it just says

German Rail Capacity is 9400, going to 8400 in 44 and 5400 in 45. Rail Repair will tend to occur automatically nearest 'Bautrupp' units at a maximum rate of 12 per turn and will reduce to 3 per turn on turn 43 and return to 12 per turn on turn 73. Rail Damage starts at 0% for turn 1 to represent that the Baltic states where on the same gauge as German rail, goes to 25% on turn 2, goes to 75% on turn 3, and to 100% on turn 32.

why is useful game info buried in something called "background"

also what does "just nearby or in the vicinity" - i could go the whole game and not know whether i was losing out on rail conversion - why not just give a hex range?

[sPzAbt653]

From the Briefing:
Please read the background documents that accompany this scenario before playing.
Ok, it doesn't say specifically where it is located, I can see where you failed to find it without specific detailed instructions.

why not just give a hex range?

Because there is no hex range. It is another thing that couldn't be clearer, just nearby or in the vicinity.

D21 is an Advanced/Expert type scenario. If you can't comprehend the simplest easier clearest instructions, then you will certainly have problems playing the scenario. Suggest you try something more on a beginner level until you have more experience. Don't get me wrong, we would love for to enjoy playing this one, but seriously we can't be expected to put up with this sort of tedious scrutiny of every little aspect. This scenario has been around for ten years, and honestly I can't see the source of your frustration.

[sanderz]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

From the Briefing:
Please read the background documents that accompany this scenario before playing.
Ok, it doesn't say specifically where it is located, I can see where you failed to find it without specific detailed instructions.

why not just give a hex range?

Because there is no hex range. It is another thing that couldn't be clearer, just nearby or in the vicinity.

D21 is an Advanced/Expert type scenario. If you can't comprehend the simplest easier clearest instructions, then you will certainly have problems playing the scenario. Suggest you try something more on a beginner level until you have more experience. Don't get me wrong, we would love for to enjoy playing this one, but seriously we can't be expected to put up with this sort of tedious scrutiny of every little aspect. This scenario has been around for ten years, and honestly I can't see the source of your frustration.

thanks for the reply - but i think we just differ on whats clear - you have been playing the game for 10 years - i haven't

for example what you have now said "Because there is no hex range" is the opposite of what you have said above i.e. "It should be sufficient to keep these units several hexes behind the front and out of harms way" which implies, to me, that there is a hex range

also there is nothing Advanced/Expert about understanding the range of an effect of a unit

anyway - after all that i think i now understand how rail repair works, so again thanks

[etsadler]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

From the Briefing:
Please read the background documents that accompany this scenario before playing.
Ok, it doesn't say specifically where it is located, I can see where you failed to find it without specific detailed instructions.

why not just give a hex range?

Because there is no hex range. It is another thing that couldn't be clearer, just nearby or in the vicinity.

D21 is an Advanced/Expert type scenario. If you can't comprehend the simplest easier clearest instructions, then you will certainly have problems playing the scenario. Suggest you try something more on a beginner level until you have more experience. Don't get me wrong, we would love for to enjoy playing this one, but seriously we can't be expected to put up with this sort of tedious scrutiny of every little aspect. This scenario has been around for ten years, and honestly I can't see the source of your frustration.

So, how close is "nearby"? How far is "in the vicinity"? If you actually think that "couldn't be clearer" I'd like to sell you some "beachfront" property. The beach is nearby, water is in the vicinity. Its for sale for "a reasonable amount of money". Once you sign the contract I'll tell you how much that is. [:D]

[nnason]

All,
Lets be gentle with our support/criticism. I have asked a few dumb questions in my time. At the time I asked them, they didn't seem dumb to me.

[Fred98]

And I have confirmed in the Korea 1950 scenario, the railway repair unit is not required to move along railways. Nor is it limited to roads. It can move across country.

Further, it can board trains just like most other units. It cannot repair rails while is on a train.

So the movement of railroad repair units differs from one scenario to another.

.