Korut Zelva vs Taxman66: Battle of the newbie

[johanssb]

Yes, the Germans are faster but you can operate your troops away to form the next road block, and use garrisons to prevent your corps/armies from being surrounded. If you force the Germans to bypass a city to cut it off then you are delaying their advance because supply will take longer to catch up to them.

[Taxman66]

40% = 8 chits
+2 for the ones that already hit
That's 1,500MPP [X(][X(]

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johanssb:
I'd never thought to do that (escape via operate). It is a completely different style of play from other WW2 games I've played. So you get fewer reinforcements but less dead units; and more dead in supply units.
Pretty much too late for me to try that now.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: November 28, 1941

Little to report in Russia, other than that Germany has spent resources on building up the Finnish army.

UK found 3 subs, 2 on the convoy route to Murmansk and 1 off the coast of France (Iraq Convoy). They were engaged by
2 DD and a CL. The Commonwealth ships are (for now at least) back to tech parity with the subs (or at least the ones
out raiding). 3 shots at 2 subs resulted in 1 dive, and 1 dmg to 2 different subs (Iraq and one on Soviet lines) with
no damage back to Commonwealth ships.
Convoy line from Iraq is reduced 75-80%, line to USSR and from USA is clean.

FDR receives two phone calls in one day.
Churchill: "What are you doing my good man? If you don't get involved soon the Nazis will be unstoppable. Don't make get on my knees, that's
not a good look 'ol fellow."

Stalin: "Listen, I know those isolationist folks are a pain. Listen this is how you deal with them, round up a few of the outspoken ones... like
that Lindy..borg? fellow, maybe that flamboyant actor from that pirate movie... Edward Flynt? Errol? Put them in hospital, or morgue, from an
angry mob of anglophiles. Maybe that Ford jerk will get the message, sweeten it with a premium if he builds war materials instead of autos. If that
doesn't work... Comrade, I'm afraid you're going to have to have a purge."

Japan attacks Pearl Harbor, and the US jumps from 70% to 85%.
So good news: No axis diplo hit this turn. Bad news: Got the minimum Pearl bump.
Basic turn bump cancelled by Isolationists, which I think is a bug (see below).

One more bump without an axis diplo hit (and possible Isolationist bug) and the 90% auto increase is added on.

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I also got the Isolationists call for return to home waters. I think this is a bug as the DD was in a US port at the
start and end of the turn and only the blimp was out of the US in Greenland (which was also operated back during the turn); and
the pop-up fired at the end of the turn.

[KorutZelva]

Battle of the atlantic heats up, battleship and sub tags a destroyer. Subs rush to scene and faces a picket of cruisers and battleships.

Progress halts in russia and troops assume winter quarters.

Bagdhad is liberated.

Siberian troops are transfered

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: December 20, 1941

Rain keeps land based air grounded on the shores of British isles. However, calm seas allow English carrier air wings
to exact some revenge for another fallen Destroyer. A sub in St. George's Channel is sunk after repeated hits from
Destroyers, a light cruiser and multiple air strikes. Eventually the wounded sub is unable to dive fast enough to avoid
a torpedo launched by a swordfish. A bit of damage is also done to another sub nearby as is to one in the North Sea near Stavanget, Norway.

The convoy line for Iraq disappears.

There is German interdiction of the convoys from South Africa and the rest of the British Empire and also along the line to the USSR,
but neither is complete shut down.

In Russia, Germany made a few conservative attacks, mostly against cut off Russian forces. Of note the Swamp Heroes of Babruysk, out of supply,
low on food, ammo and only at 30% strength manage to cause noticeable damage to 'The Little Friend' Panzer unit reducing the
13 STR lvl 3 Panzers to STR 12.

Stavka celebrates the arrival of the Siberian forces East of Moscow, but it is a somewhat sedate celebration as the staff all secretly wonder,
"Is it enough?"

US Mobilization goes from 85% to 87% at the end of the turn. WTF!?!?! [:@]



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I thought I would keep getting MPP from the southern part of Iraq that isn't cut off from the ports (like the north) and still in UK
control... guess not. Why? Just because the Germans take Bagdad doesn't mean the shipping would immediately end.

Does US mobilization increase only happen at the end of the Allied turn? It was at 85% at the end of last turn.

Also how did I only get a 2% bump?
Looking at the scripts there is one that says a 1%-2% if after 01/01/1941 AND one that says a
4%-6% if after 06/22/1941. I presume they are cumulative as there is a 3rd for 1%-2% for after 01/01/1942.

The only way I could get 2% is if I got the minimum 5% (1+4) and lost 3% somewhere, presumably the Isolationist bug (which I didn't get a
pop-up for this turn)

[KorutZelva]

Based on the script flag I think the 4% to 6% bump is a one time thing. Only the 1% to 2% one is recurrent.

[Taxman66]

If that is the case then each diplo hit would take 3-5 turns in 1942 to overcome.
And a grotesque amount if you get one of the big diplo hits.

[KorutZelva]

Speaking of which I got 12% diplo hit right after I got a 'USA prepares for war'.

[:D]

[Taxman66]

I'm about ready to throw in the towel if the US is boxed out another 4-5 turns.

[Taxman66]

As a matter of fact after running some numbers it appears that if you can maintain a 4-5 chit advantage you should (with average luck) perpetually keep the USA out of the war.
I did buy 2 chits (1 UK & 1 USSR) to drop your chances, I can't keep doing that as the USSR is already in deep trouble severely lacking troops and Tech to counter your high level panzers.
The UK can't afford it either as I'm spending most of her MPP just trying to repair and occasionally replace my naval losses. The UK is in even worse shape research wise as they need more areas than
the USSR does.

[KorutZelva]

Then better buy those diplo chits, my good man, if you ever want those yankee to ever wet their feet. [:'(]

By sacrificing one turn worth of income you can insure that the USA joins before summer via the 1-2% trickle.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: January 21, 1942

Germany had another good weather turn in the southern Ukraine.
Nothing else to report on the Soviet Front.

3 Subs found (2 German, 1 Italian)
One sub spotted by highlander coastal watch. Guessing it was trying to sneak down the west side of Scotland.
One high experience sub found along the Soviet Convoy route.
The Italian sub found in St. George's Channel. Late to the party of the previous engagement.

All I could do for the one on the Soviet line was cruise a DD next to it. My sub (the Salmon) found the German one, since
I don't want to push Norway over yet, so I'm left with just scouting with it.

The one off Scotland and the Italian are engaged by DD, CL, CV and Land Base Air that can reach. Both subs dive
frequently (particularly the lvl 0 Italian sub at only 20% chance) though some damage is done to both. Neither near death though.

US Mobilization started my turn at 81% and ended at 84% (You have to watch that corner of the screen carefully to
see it when ending your turn in PBEM++. I suggest adding something a bit more pronounced.

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Maxed out USSR diplo chits on the USA. Note they only get 3.
UK bought a chit as well (they can only afford 1/turn).
Giving me a current total of 5 out of a maximum total of 8.
Hopefully there will be no more hits against the US for the next 4 turns (2 his 2 mine) as I have to wait to ramp up to max.


Don't think the USSR will last through the summer of '42, as a threat anyway, with or without the US. It's going to take too
long to get INF Weapons 3 and even when I do, I got nothing that can deal with the lvl 3 tanks... and I wouldn't be surprised to see lvl 4 tanks by the end of '42 or early '43

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

The Germans are faster than the Soviets, many of the German Infantry have mobility and there are a lot of panzer, mech and cav units.
Oh, and they are often either killing the units on the turn they encounter them, or they are surrounding them.

If you do not start your turn adjacent to an Axis unit you can alway force march out of danger. If you do start adjacent and you are on a rail line (that has not been cut off) you can move operationally out of danger. If you can do neither than at least try and retreat back to a hex which has at least 6 supply; that way when your unit is destroyed at least you can rebuild it cheaper.

[KorutZelva]

Feb 11, 1942

Ah! I didn't realise USSR and Italy had the same number of diplo chits.

A lot of renforcing to cope with the Soviet Winter from last turn.
Rommel's panzer cuts the rail line for the Persian supplies.
A sub tries to make its escape but end up right in the middle of the Royal Navy. Good luck little sub. I got two straight turn of bad weather in the atlantic, cramping my wolfpac style.
I belately realized that the Italian are controling Iraq. What happened is that I took Baghdad with a Germany unit BUT the italian tank marched through Baghdad en route to another hex. I guess it painted the city for the Duce despite the fact their was very much still a German unit there. Oh well, that's good for the Italian's income. Franco's gotta have to take Vichy later to make up the loss income for germany.

And the winner for most stalled front is... Leningrad!

[sapper32]

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

The Germans are faster than the Soviets, many of the German Infantry have mobility and there are a lot of panzer, mech and cav units.
Oh, and they are often either killing the units on the turn they encounter them, or they are surrounding them.

If you do not start your turn adjacent to an Axis unit you can alway force march out of danger. If you do start adjacent and you are on a rail line (that has not been cut off) you can move operationally out of danger. If you can do neither than at least try and retreat back to a hex which has at least 6 supply; that way when your unit is destroyed at least you can rebuild it cheaper.

Why can the German infantry get mobility upgrades anyway didn't they use horse drawn transport for the entire war only the Panzer and Panzer grenadier were highly mobile

[KorutZelva]

It's already near impossible to get Dec 1941 historical border after barbarossa's launch, I'm not sure I want any measure reducing Germany mobility. I'd give their infantry an additional action point all across before I'd remove mobility.

[Zecke]

amigos¡; the most important thing is BARBARROSSA in this game; so once you broke 1940 france; send units to poland and finish France with parís; even if many UK units are alive..RUN¡ to BARBARROSSA¡

[Taxman66]

You could've had that extra AP for all the German INF (buying Mobility), you chose to spend it on stalling the US instead (they would've been in before Pearl given your successes and aggresson).

You've got no right to complain about the weather with all the clear turns in spring 40 (France) and fall 41 in the Ukraine. :p

I'll post in another thread, but I worry about the sub/asw changes in the forthcoming patch. Subs were historically very vulnerable to air attack. CVs dont have an asw improvement (escort carriers do), so does that mean that as the subs improve CV (and non maritime Land based air) get fewer chances to do damage. Making the subs better at start (40% dive and DD and CL weaker vs subs) is just downright scary. At +1 level tech advantage in the current version subs can actually hunt DD, epically if they have experience (which is far easier for them to get than it is for the DDs).

As for historical '41 borders:
It's a game. I don't have to play as stupidly (in hindsight) as the Russians did (though I came close), nor do you have to put up with Herr Hitler's idiocy. You also spent more effort in the Med, and in the Ukraine durring the invasion than historical too; and as stated above you spent a ton on diplomacy (like 5-6 armies worth).

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

You could've had that extra AP for all the German INF (buying Mobility), you chose to spend it on stalling the US instead (they would've been in before Pearl given your successes and aggresson).

You've got no right to complain about the weather with all the clear turns in spring 40 (France) and fall 41 in the Ukraine. :p

I'll post in another thread, but I worry about the sub/asw changes in the forthcoming patch. Subs were historically very vulnerable to air attack. CVs dont have an asw improvement (escort carriers do), so does that mean that as the subs improve CV (and non maritime Land based air) get fewer chances to do damage. Making the subs better at start (40% dive and DD and CL weaker vs subs) is just downright scary. At +1 level tech advantage in the current version subs can actually hunt DD, epically if they have experience (which is far easier for them to get than it is for the DDs).

As for historical '41 borders:
It's a game. I don't have to play as stupidly (in hindsight) as the Russians did (though I came close), nor do you have to put up with Herr Hitler's idiocy. You also spent more effort in the Med, and in the Ukraine durring the invasion than historical too; and as stated above you spent a ton on diplomacy (like 5-6 armies worth).

I'm just thinking that to get a unit to the push the border all the way to moskow you basically need to march in a straight line, not encounter any opposition, not stop to fight or resupply. Never mind swinging south to Kiev and than back north, no time for that. Tells me the armies are probably more sluggish that they need to be.

One of the reason is that the turn takes place over longer period of time from summer to fall (from 7 days to, 14 and more) and adding mud movement penalty on top of those basically stops progress. Having the turn account for a longer period in a way already account for deteriorating weather condition so adding mud to that is like double counting. Much progress was done from September to December 1941, which is unthinkable under the current mechanics.

For the sub change, yeah... That seems like it will be a big boost to the Uboat fleet. But people seem to agree that Axis/allies have not reached parity (and since we don't use bids anymore) so I'm not against introducing changes that are buffing Germany*.

* I can see giving the UK a greater urgency in dealing with the uboat threat which will leave more opening for germany (less contested france, less commitment to Egypt, less research etc.) and it also introduce more diminishing return for the German player in the uboat war, because once ASW is high enough the jig will be up no matter what sub tech he has. Overall, it's a win.

[Taxman66]

Per the isolationist bug Bill has confirmed, the USA should have been at war before the last diplo hit against her. The USA has built an escort carrier early on (to help deal with sub threat) counting as the 2nd naval vessel (actually the 1st naval vessel).

If I haven't misunderstood his comment the US should have been increasing 5-8% in 1940 once USSR was in the war (4-6 + 1-2) and 6-10% in 1941.

This is the 2nd significant bug (including the no surrender in Iraq) that has compromised my position. Note I'm not saying I would be winning, far from it. Only that things wouldn't be as bad as they are.