Finally Started Turn one! And some questions

[Rogue187]

After loading up the full campaign over two years ago (life got in the way) and spending over 10 hours following the Allied setup spreadsheet I was finally able to start the game last night! I only skipped about 20 sub patrols out of Manila and still have to finish the Russians, but I will catch up on those. I have patched the game to the latest beta and am hoping this won't be a problem for the game play. Frankly, I am not sure I would start over again even if I had to. But I do have a couple of questions.

1. Oil vs fuel. This is probably elementary, but do I want to get oil to major cities for it to be turned into fuel or just supply them with fuel? For example, Perth has no oil but it has fuel. Do I want to take some tankers from Sumatra, load them up with oil and take it to Perth, or just simply take fuel to Perth? What cities should I be looking for to turn oil into fuel? Ones with any industry or only heavy industry?

2. Full refuel or not. If I am trying to supply fuel to an island and the full refuel option is on, does the ship know to refuel at its home port or will it take from the fuel I just off loaded? For example, if I want to build up some fuel at Christmas Island with a AK, TK or whatever with say 1700 worth of fuel. Will the ship go there, off load then refuel once it gets back to Hawaii or will it unload the fuel cargo, reload it as ship fuel and sail off with Christmas Island left with a net gain of zero fuel? Same question applies to constant supply TFs.

3. Supplying with retirement allowed on. It used to be that if a TF had retirement allowed on and the mission was to resupply a base, it would only unload a little bit of supply once it arrived then promptly RTB. Has this been fixed? Does it take off only once the cargo has been unloaded?

Thanks!

[Aurorus]

1) Oil is useless. Refineries convert oil into fuel (and in stock, supply). Therefore, the only use for oil is to transport it to refineries. As the allies, you need not worry much about converting oil into fuel, though the extra supply generation that occurs in the process of conversion is helpful at frontline bases. Mostly you want to remove fuel first, and oil second, from the DEI to deny these resources to Japan. Heavy industry uses fuel, so shipping fuel to Australia and New Zealand, where there is heavy industry, but little fuel, is helpful.

2) TFs set to full refuel will refuel themselves to 100% endurance at every port that has fuel. So, if you offload TKs carrying fuel to a port, and the TF is set to "full refuel," those TKs will then fully refuel themselves (skimming some of the fuel they just offloaded) before returning to their home port. I think most allied players do not concern themselves much with the fuel settings of TFs, since fuel is plentiful. As a Japanese player, I set all my TFs, except combat ships to "do not refuel" and then micromanage their fuel. The last thing that I want as a Japanese player is to lose 3 or 4 xAKs filled with fuel. Much better to lose them near empty.

3) A TF with "retirement on" will complete its mission before retiring. So, if it is set to unload, it will unload completely before returning to base.

[BBfanboy]

To add to Aurorus' good advice:

1. I also find that oil takes longer to load and unload than fuel, tying up your tanker longer. Ship fuel when you can and oil when fuel is not available. You can ship a partial load of fuel and partial oil if necessary to fill the tanker. To do this set "Do Not Unload" and "Remain on Station" so that after the fuel loads you are still at the port and can order "Stop loading Fuel" (a small amount will be there each turn from the previous turn's production) and then order "Load Oil". After that you can set a destination and remove the "Do Not Unload" order.
But above all, in the DEI at game start, do not leave your tanker there so long that the Japanese have a chance to get in range. You need your tankers badly in the first year of the war and it is better to leave some fuel/oil behind and get the tanker to a safer port to haul from (like USA or Abadan).

2. I always set "Minimal Refuel" so that even if the Tanker does not have enough fuel to get back to home port, it can take just enough to get back and I don't have to monitor the departure of the tanker. An alternative is to set a waypoint like Pearl Harbour on the route, set a refuel level at the waypoint and click the text "return same route" so it goes there on the way back too.

3. The TF will only fail to unload if:
- it has been set to "do not unload"
- there are other TFs there tying up the port and it has not been able to unload any supply for several days (the port has ops points limits too)
- an enemy threat causes the TF commander to flee to home port (his aggression level and degree of threat determine this). The threat may be something that you have no visible indication of (like bombers suddenly appearing at an enemy base in range) but the AI knows about.

[Yaab]

Oil.

I mostly use small TKs (5000-6500 capacity) to load oil in Palembang and dump it in Perth (oil will get pushed from there by rail to Sydney area automatically). Oil loads slowly even at Palembang, so using small tankers makes sense. You can use bigger ones (8000-14,000 capacity) to haul fuel or evac at start from harm's way, especially if you play with "no fuel in xAKs" house-rule.

[Kursk1943]

In post number 1 an Allied setup spreadsheet is mentioned. Where can I find it?

[Kull]

Links in my post

Edit - Be sure to update the AI for your build:

tm.asp?m=4257473

[Kursk1943]

Thanks a lot, Kull!

[Rogue187]

Thank you for all of the advise. Its hard to figure out what to do in the beginning as there is a lot of...stuff. Stuff that needs to move around and get from point A to point B. How much of a rush should I be in? Do I need to get by B-17s and infantry down to Australia by the end of December to stop the Japanese? Or is is better to just build up and wait it out a bit?

[rms1pa]

by B-17s and infantry down to Australia by the end of December to stop the Japanese? Or is is better to just build up and wait it out a bit?

Fighters, there are no fighters in Australia at start.

the closest are buffalos from malaya or P40bs from the PI

sending the NZ squadron from malaysia is my first choice but it is a bunch of transfers, singers to batavia to soerebya to kopang (may need malacca) to darwin to horn to port moersby.

you can put AAC aircraft on a CV as deck cargo and fly them off when close enough to AUS. not my prefered choice.

rms/pa

[Rogue187]

I saw someone mention that players agree not to use AK transports to move fuel, why is that? I know they are not ideal, but I just imagine 55 gallon barrels being loaded on to them.

[Yaab]

Imagine all the barrels
It's easy if you read

tm.asp?m=3742111&mpage=1&key=�

[geofflambert]

The Allied side generally has too much of everything, but one thing it lacks is enough shipping to move all the fuel being produced in the US to places useful like Sydney and Auckland. Take what you can (fuel) out of the DEI and ship it to Oz. India also will have more fuel than it knows what to do with but will never be able to ship it somewhere more useful. This war is all about fuel and Japan's need to take it from wherever it can get it. Your mission as the Allied player is to move fuel to NZ and Oz, without which you will be unable to operate CVs in the Western Pacific. Once you have enough fuel to do that, you need to move a bunch more or you won't be able to operate BBs in the Western Pacific.

[jbdenney]

One thing really struck me in the Initial Post. 10 hours to follow the Allied Spread Sheet? It takes me a lot longer than that (Allies). Course I spend a lot of time documenting the units in the game. I have Tracker but there are some things that just don't work in Tracker the way I like.

This time I am going to be smart. Once I finish the Turn 2 order phase I am going to "archive" the entire WITP AE Directory, including my personal spreadsheets, so I don't have to go through this exercise again.

[rustysi]

How much of a rush should I be in? Do I need to get by B-17s and infantry down to Australia by the end of December to stop the Japanese? Or is is better to just build up and wait it out a bit?

Japan needs to get as much done as quickly as possible. As for the Allies, time is on your side. This doesn't mean that you should lollygag your way through the game, but you have the luxury of not being in too much of a hurry. One of you most important things you need to do early on is to decide on and build up your LOC's. For the U.S. at least this means a string of island bases across the Pacific to OZ. You will have to get some things there asap, but what those might be I really don't know as I've only played Japan as yet. One thing I can tell you with certainty is don't panic. As a Japanese player I would love for my opponent to do nothing better, because it usually means poor judgement. What I'm really driving at is if you have a Japanese opponent pushing quickly and beyond the historical limits in an area be assured he/she is weak somewhere else. Her assets are quite stressed early game, believe it or not. At least in a stock scen1 game. I've no idea about the mods, and scen2 gives Japan more 'toys', so to speak.

In addition to that Japan will have a hard enough time just holding onto historical gains, much less a bunch of stuff beyond. So if she does these things they should be to your benefit, at least to a point. IOW you'll want to pick your LOC and maintian it, but some alterations may be required.

At any rate don't expect to be able to say I'll do this or that and have it work out perfectly. Truth is you'll have to play the game several times to get a real feel for what to do and how to do it. Like it or not that's just the nature of the 'beast', and this game certainly is just that.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

How much of a rush should I be in? Do I need to get by B-17s and infantry down to Australia by the end of December to stop the Japanese? Or is is better to just build up and wait it out a bit?

Japan needs to get as much done as quickly as possible. As for the Allies, time is on your side. This doesn't mean that you should lollygag your way through the game, but you have the luxury of not being in too much of a hurry. One of you most important things you need to do early on is to decide on and build up your LOC's. For the U.S. at least this means a string of island bases across the Pacific to OZ. You will have to get some things there asap, but what those might be I really don't know as I've only played Japan as yet. One thing I can tell you with certainty is don't panic. As a Japanese player I would love for my opponent to do nothing better, because it usually means poor judgement. What I'm really driving at is if you have a Japanese opponent pushing quickly and beyond the historical limits in an area be assured he/she is weak somewhere else. Her assets are quite stressed early game, believe it or not. At least in a stock scen1 game. I've no idea about the mods, and scen2 gives Japan more 'toys', so to speak.

In addition to that Japan will have a hard enough time just holding onto historical gains, much less a bunch of stuff beyond. So if she does these things they should be to your benefit, at least to a point. IOW you'll want to pick your LOC and maintian it, but some alterations may be required.

At any rate don't expect to be able to say I'll do this or that and have it work out perfectly. Truth is you'll have to play the game several times to get a real feel for what to do and how to do it. Like it or not that's just the nature of the 'beast', and this game certainly is just that.

Good advice. It is too early in the first four months or so to decide where you will start your advance toward Japan - you need to see what Japan does first and what assets each side has lost. Thus, I like the methods of Canoerebel and a few other players who develop solid logistics bases along each major axis (DEI& Philippines, Centpac & Ryukyus, NorPac, China/Burma/India) to Japan so they can support an advance later if that axis is chosen.
While doing that there will be bases you absolutely do not want to let the enemy have and you must reinforce and develop them as bastions. At least one of these will likely be your Guadalcanal where the tipping point in the Japanese advance is reached.

[Rogue187]

Without restarting the "AK ships transporting fuel" debate, what do players use to transport fuel? TKs and AOs?

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

Without restarting the "AK ships transporting fuel" debate, what do players use to transport fuel? TKs and AOs?

Both....GP

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

Without restarting the "AK ships transporting fuel" debate, what do players use to transport fuel? TKs and AOs?

Unless you are assembling empty ships in a port to load troops for an invasion, ships should be loading up and moving whatever you need to move forward. Idle ships are wasting resources. So if your AOs are not supporting your TFs by refuelling them at sea, they should be hauling fuel to ports that will be able to refuel those TFs when needed (or to support HI production if you choose to).

Just keep in mind that you don't want to gift supply or fuel to the enemy so don't load up a base that you expect to lose. And don't overload a base above its storage limits (shown at the top of the base screen up for bases with less than 9 points of development - port + airfield) as you will begin to lose the overage to spoilage.

[Zecke]

the fuel is important; and the white fuell too..

just go for the fuel very quikly and full refit your bases at the beguining where you may think operate; japan KBs are busy. take the risk ate least you will force japan to spend fuel that not have.