"They Crossed over the Border an Hour before dawn" 2x3 North German AAA

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Is this what you are eluding to in your post in Tyronecs AAR? I think it is and yeah I have used staging on more than one occasion. I know Tyronec used a few too. Well is this what you were referencing?

And yes I noticed your writeup on the Air bombing campaign and I really like it(I am going to use it next time!!!!! I hope I don't have to pay a huge fee for the property use rights ) I didn't know if what I read was finished or not since I knew there was supposed to be a writeup of more air policies/strats and was looking forward to it. I really value your insight into to the workings in this game .

I have a bet with Crackaces that when the penny drops it will be HardLuckYetAgain who gets it first.

I post everything copyright free (is that copyleft?). I am a generous man - and as a result a poor one. But seeing how those copright lawyers endessly pursue poor EwaldvonKleist ....

If you like what was there so far you will definitely like what I have written up for the next few turns!

I wouldn't be so sure of me getting anything. I only passed 1st grade and I can barely put a square peg in a round hole ;-P. I learned this game more by the Scientific Method & my extensive past gaming experience. So reading the manual for me never happened, I basically experimented with everything in the game from the German perspective in 2010 to mid 2016 and lately the Soviet side.

Yes, I'm one of those people that have to fiddle with things to see how they work & to hell with reading rules (unless I have to). That is why I like playing Engineer in real life

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Telemecus




I have a bet with Crackaces that when the penny drops it will be HardLuckYetAgain who gets it first.

I post everything copyright free (is that copyleft?). I am a generous man - and as a result a poor one. But seeing how those copright lawyers endessly pursue poor EwaldvonKleist ....

If you like what was there so far you will definitely like what I have written up for the next few turns!

I wouldn't be so sure of me getting anything. I only passed 1st grade and I can barely put a square peg in a round hole ;-P. I learned this game more by the Scientific Method & my extensive past gaming experience. So reading the manual for me never happened, I basically experimented with everything in the game from the German perspective in 2010 to mid 2016 and lately the Soviet side.

Yes, I'm one of those people that have to fiddle with things to see how they work & to hell with reading rules (unless I have to). That is why I like playing Engineer in real life

There is a really good chapter in the book An introduction to general systems theory all focused on observation of an outsider vs. the intents of the creator.
The superobserver might "see it all," but that does not equal "know-it-all" That observing and classifying states [The Engineering methodology] provides a picture but that the creator only really knows the functions between the observed states.

However, I might suggest that HLYA has observed and classified enough states that he is a formidable opponent and has shown worth reading his posts [8D]

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain




I wouldn't be so sure of me getting anything. I only passed 1st grade and I can barely put a square peg in a round hole ;-P. I learned this game more by the Scientific Method & my extensive past gaming experience. So reading the manual for me never happened, I basically experimented with everything in the game from the German perspective in 2010 to mid 2016 and lately the Soviet side.

Yes, I'm one of those people that have to fiddle with things to see how they work & to hell with reading rules (unless I have to). That is why I like playing Engineer in real life

There is a really good chapter in the book An introduction to general systems theory all focused on observation of an outsider vs. the intents of the creator.
The superobserver might "see it all," but that does not equal "know-it-all" That observing and classifying states [The Engineering methodology] provides a picture but that the creator only really knows the functions between the observed states.

However, I might suggest that HLYA has observed and classified enough states that he is a formidable opponent and has shown worth reading his posts [8D]

Thank you for the kind words but I'm not worthy. Others far surpass me.

I like to think that I might be proving that the "Infinite Monkey Theorem" could be correct ;-P.

[Crackaces]

One thing I wanted to comment on this AAR at this point -- the map. I believe the Soviet AGN player was using the stock map. AS a student of human factors management in a past career I might comment that The delineation of unpassable hexsides and places that are particularly important are somewhat obscured. The crossing at Lake Pskov that is considered a major river vs. unpassable is in between two red hexsides. I am using a modified map that shows very clearly arrows across this hexside. I believe this is why often on the stock map this path is often not taken and not defended (HLYA Pskov defense posting shows leaving a NKVD on the front door and using a random Inf division to guard the crossing).

So a look at the Pdf picture for turn 3 shows the arrows and the stock map does not .. another GG detail

Just to say the 3 hex deep swamp makes this route a challenge -- even initially unguarded, within turn 3 my pzXX's are covered with Soviet inf XX .. this will be a slugfest for sure with the Soviet North commander putting up a good fight.

One other comment .. a look at the combat result pushing back the 67 rifle division. My thought for the hex is to have one flak unit and one art SU to support the hex for the counter attack (Soviets have the +1 option). As it is for the attack the flak unit ate some bombers, and the guns disrupted infantry enough to turn an unadjusted CV 3.22 -1 with a defensive unit in a swamp hex to an adjusted 3.7-1 victory.

[Crackaces]

I upload a zip file with a pdf so I can provide better editing and dialog with the pictures. The downside is the ability to quote the pictures but I think still it lays out some thoughts for comment.

We are on turn #7. WE have a pause this turn as one of the Soviets [Drakken] Resigned. I think this is unfortunate. In reading his game with PsychO it was clear he was very frustrated, and did not understand the details of the game. But you have to play the game to learn this game and the experience initially can be very frustrating. Personally, I think a team game has been God sent for me as many parts of the game I was not even aware of let alone try and master.
I hope somebody that wants to have a lot of fun will take a position with the Soviets.

Thedocking has certainly been a worthy opponet. I have spent a lot of German effort to flank Pskov on the North, and what I thought was going to be quick work continues to be a WWI slugfest through multiple lines of Soviet units dug in with good terrain for the defense. We still have 2 rivers to cross to set up our attack on Leningrad.

The pdf is enclosed as a zip file.

[Telemecus]

So glad I got you to say lorries! Got to work on the other Americanisms next!

I am a big fan of the Narva and between the lakes routes. They often get slammed elsewhere - but the problem if you are just left with the Pskow route is your opponent also knows you have only the Pskow route. Keep all options viable means a Soviet opponent has to properly cover them all and spread them-self thin. If they leave one weak, or one becomes weak after a bit of probing, then the Axis should keep the option of piling in through there.

The Soviet team in the 2by3+ team game are looking for a new commander. It is a much lower commitment than going solo. A great way for a beginner to do their first game against others. And if you are an old hand come and show us your stuff. If you would like to join the team do post here or on any of the games other threads, or feel free to message Neogodhobo or myself.

[thedoctorking]

I have been looking at your AAR from time to time. I'm enjoying our game. Your use of the crossing point south of Lake Piepus took me completely by surprise. I think it turned out to be a handicap for you, though. The exit point is into a huge collection of swamps, and then even once you get to the Luga you're moving the long way through hills and fortifications before you get to Leningrad.

I have been sending troops to the south from time to time, but my team has been using all the rail moves before I get the game, so I can only march guys. This leaves some big juicy tank divisions up in the Leningrad region to confront your boys (mis-typed "goys" [:D]). We'll see how it works out. Our boss was adamant about not losing Leningrad.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I have been looking at your AAR from time to time. I'm enjoying our game. Your use of the crossing point south of Lake Piepus took me completely by surprise. I think it turned out to be a handicap for you, though. The exit point is into a huge collection of swamps, and then even once you get to the Luga you're moving the long way through hills and fortifications before you get to Leningrad.

I have been sending troops to the south from time to time, but my team has been using all the rail moves before I get the game, so I can only march guys. This leaves some big juicy tank divisions up in the Leningrad region to confront your boys (mis-typed "goys" [:D]). We'll see how it works out. Our boss was adamant about not losing Leningrad.

Your quite correct .. the 3 hexes of swap reduced supplies and thus it took turns 2 - 6 to clear [More AAR postings as this game advances ] crossings of the Luga.. with (the turn is up for turn 7) turn 7 making a big push. I am upgraded to 1.10.01 so HQBU costs a lot ..

The problem with rail allocation is a real one for the Soviets .. moving industry vs. units.

I count 20 good Soviet units at start -- we don't know which ones because that is random .. but Leningrad has its fair share .. take a look at the turn .. you will see a few units locked in ZOC's and a few (10) isolated. I look forward to the response
This turn (7) was strategically coordinated in that knowing AGS had engaged and isolated many Soviet units the decision was to try and engage as many Soviet units as possible and have you all make some decisions where scarce resources are going to be allocated ...

I think I can get to the Neva next turn ... Maybe a Soviet counterattack to relieve the Luga Pocket? Abandon the Luga Pocket and put up a 3 unit wall? Lend units to defend Moscow with the Germans 120 miles away from the Spires of the Kremlin?
Stay tuned [8D]

I am sorry that Drakken quit. A mantra the Soviets must have in their minds IMHO is that no matter what .. Soviets end up in Berlin .. it is just when ..unless they quit ..the happy times for Germany are about to be over ...

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
Your quite correct .. the 3 hexes of swap reduced supplies and thus it took turns 2 - 6 to clear [More AAR postings as this game advances ] crossings of the Luga.. with (the turn is up for turn 7) turn 7 making a big push.

Also worth comparing moving across swamps with fighting across the clearest terrrain. If a swamp hex has no enemy unit it can be quicker to drive through it, than fight multiple times a clear hex and then move on to it. I think the end result on turn 7 compares well to just going through Pskow?

The Soviet team in the 2by3+ team game are looking for a new commander. It is a much lower commitment than going solo. A great way for a beginner to do their first game against others. And if you are an old hand come and show us your stuff. If you would like to join the team do post here or on any of the games other threads, or feel free to message Neogodhobo or myself.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
Your quite correct .. the 3 hexes of swap reduced supplies and thus it took turns 2 - 6 to clear [More AAR postings as this game advances ] crossings of the Luga.. with (the turn is up for turn 7) turn 7 making a big push.

Also worth comparing moving across swamps with fighting across the clearest terrrain. If a swamp hex has no enemy unit it can be quicker to drive through it, than fight multiple times a clear hex and then move on to it. I think the end result on turn 7 compares well to just going through Pskow?

The Soviet team in the 2by3+ team game are looking for a new commander. It is a much lower commitment than going solo. A great way for a beginner to do their first game against others. And if you are an old hand come and show us your stuff. If you would like to join the team do post here or on any of the games other threads, or feel free to message Neogodhobo or myself.

I certainly think the AGN progress on turn 7 shows that with a HQBU once across Lake Pskov and with better German Infantry its a race between the Soviets smothering the Pz XX on the East Bank of Lake Pskov and getting across the Luga. It took me 4 turns to get organized on the East Bank.
So the result is 3 hexes from Leningrad starting turn 8.

If a German player took on HLYA Pskov defense and was determined to make a major river crossing at Lake Pskov -- it would take at least turn 4 to have the resources to cross and one would be at turn 10 at the current game. Maybe with more depleted units?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
If a German player took on HLYA Pskov defense and was determined to make a major river crossing at Lake Pskov -- it would take at least turn 4 to have the resources to cross and one would be at turn 10 at the current game. Maybe with more depleted units?

That is certainly true - the irony about HLYA's pskow defence is that they specified only 1 unit to hold the crossing between the lakes on turn 2. It could even just be an NKVD unit. To have to commit so little in the first place to snub out this possibility is a price well worth paying.

The Soviet team in the 2by3+ team game are looking for a new commander. It is a much lower commitment than going solo. A great way for a beginner to do their first game against others. And if you are an old hand come and show us your stuff. If you would like to join the team do post here or on any of the games other threads, or feel free to message Neogodhobo or myself.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
If a German player took on HLYA Pskov defense and was determined to make a major river crossing at Lake Pskov -- it would take at least turn 4 to have the resources to cross and one would be at turn 10 at the current game. Maybe with more depleted units?

That is certainly true - the irony about HLYA's pskow defence is that they specified only 1 unit to hold the crossing between the lakes on turn 2. It could even just be an NKVD unit. To have to commit so little in the first place to snub out this possibility is a price well worth paying.

The Soviet team in the 2by3+ team game are looking for a new commander. It is a much lower commitment than going solo. A great way for a beginner to do their first game against others. And if you are an old hand come and show us your stuff. If you would like to join the team do post here or on any of the games other threads, or feel free to message Neogodhobo or myself.

I think HLYA puts a NKVD unit in front so turn 2 MP's are used for a hasty attack that prevents an immediate crossing. Behind that is an infantry unit placed on turn #1 or #2. If on turn #1, and with 1.10.01 .. this unit will have dug in to a fort level of at least 2 by turn 4 .. a single threaded "Neva" crossing ..that if the Soviets decided to put 3 units in reaction on turn #3 .. would be expensive if not impossible ..
So a surprise is a must .. but units have to be pretty close because of the swamp hex .. almost calls to bluff a crossing so the Soviets have to respond [:'(]

[Crackaces]

The Germans have completed turn 8. Normally I would be posting turn 5. However, we are experiencing a little pause.

The Soviet team has had 2 players quit, Drakken and Psych 0. The good news is the Soviets have recruited new players. Telemecus posted a recruiting signature with every one of his posts [:D]] The right thing to do from the Germans is to allow the new players the opportunity to take over from the point Drakken quit -- which is turn 6. So we are offering a roll back to turn 6. Given that my AAR would be far closer than the original 5 turns I had planned .. (1 turn away)I certainly sooner that I have been previously posting. So the game is going through a little pause while we work this out.

[Crackaces]

The game goes on from Turn 8! The Soviets left after the purge (2 players quit) are commendable!

Enclosed is turn 5 for AGN in a pdf. We had one mission this turn. Clear the Soviets from Lake Pskov to the Narva River. This was accomplished mainly using armor.
I did initally think this would go faster, but the swamps and terrain have made this tough work (eating MP's up that could be exploited elsewhere)

[Crackaces]

I think I can get to the Neva next turn ... Maybe a Soviet counterattack to relieve the Luga Pocket? Abandon the Luga Pocket and put up a 3 unit wall? Lend units to defend Moscow with the Germans 120 miles away from the Spires of the Kremlin?

Turn 8 is in the Soviet hands .. On Turn 7 the Soviets reinforced and they broke the thinly held pocket isolating forces on the Luga by pushing an SS Motorized unit smartly back opening a hole (2.8- 1 Odds with +1) .. So on Turn 8 I did not head toward the Neva, but instead re-pocketed more Soviets just west of Oranienbaum -- cutting Soviet forces off from port Supply .. This decision was influenced by the large "friendship circles" executed by AGC. Most of the Soviet Army in the center is isolated at this time. I'm thinking the more stress to manpower the more likely we can stave off borscht, fish, and vodka as a staple in Berlin ..

The question will be on Turn 8 for the Soviets .. Retreat to a safer position? Continue to invest Soviet units to break the (2) pockets West of Oranienbaum (about 15 divisions) in the North? Move units South to shore up a line that is rapidly crumbling?

I will post a pdf on turn 6 as soon as Turn 8 is completed.

[Crackaces]

I have just finished Turn 9. It is a very decisive turn. Leningrad is in trouble. We decided to commit airpower to the Center, so without a lot of airpower we were able to smash the Luga Basin resistance. So How did this pocket form?
A look at turn 6 tell it all. The eventual pocket and destruction of Soviet forces defending the Luga begins innocently enough trying to defend the Luga river line. The AAR pdf is enclosed as a zip file.

These are the "happy times" for the Germans. Experienced Soviet players know that after the first blizzard the game changes considerably. It is a matter of perseverance. My opponent has been great, and I am quite sure fortunes will be reversed very soon. Until then .. let me enjoy the German "happy times"

[Crackaces]

At the end of turn 6 (see the above post for a Microsoft doc for my AAR) the picture below shows the pre-turn for turn 7. The XXXXI pz Corps we will expect to be low on fuel. The 36th Motorized XX (the 23-0 pink at the top of the screen) will likely not have much fuel at all and not likely to participate.
So the question is to focus on a three wide attack using I Corps, L Corps and LVI Pz XXX that has just completed a HQBU? That would mean 16th Army would advance toward Novgorod and Ilmen in a generally Easterly direction.

This attack plan would mean another strike to isolate Leningrad turn 8. The real risk is facing 3 units stacked 4-5 hexes deep, and a WWI slugfest. Maybe we should do a short right hook at Luga with XXVI Corps?

[Crackaces]

We are on turn 10. Above was a picture of what the end of turn 6 looked like and the planning at that point. The picture below is what I decided to try. I & L Corps would bust a hole into the town of Veyman and clear the hex to the South. Then a fuel depleted XXXXI Corps would plunge forward to get to Volosolvo.
The right hook would be from XXVI Corps with support from X Corps 16th Army. Once they cleared to Luga -- They would have to clear the hex on the North side. The LVI Pz XXX would cross the Luga riverband drive to Divenskaya and connect LOC with units at Volosolvo. The result would be the Luga basin isolated. The Soviets would have to retreat? (Readers will already know in previous postings that this turns into quite an affair)

[Crackaces]

The picture below shows the results. The right hook meets the left jab one hex East of Volosolvo. The recon did not expose the units in the swamps. We now have a small Soviet Army trapped. LVI Pz Corps still has fuel and ammo to spare and could continue toward the coast trapping everything West of Oranienbaum or drive to Schlisselburg.
What is also shown on this map is the forward units belonging to 16 Army (pink vs 18th Army purple) are now catching up and able to support the attack. I originally intended for 16th Army to head toward Novgorod .. but it looks like the Soviets want a fight in the Luga Basin. That will take more than just Model ..

The question will be -- retreat back and establish a safer line or counterattack?

[Crackaces]

The beginning of turn 8

The Soviets come out to play. The picture below shows the story .. the Soviets have opened supply into the Luga Basin.