Korut Zelva vs Taxman66: Battle of the newbie

[KorutZelva]

From memory, one of those trickle starts on Jan 41. The other starts on Jan 42 and they are cumulative (and I think they activate on both the axis and allied turns). There's a one time 4-6% bump in June 1941 if the USSR is at war by then. I don't remember seeing in the manual, that's just me checking the script like a cheater.

It's not just instructive for the newbie as we also identified a couple of bugs along the way, so it's good for the devs too. [:D]

[Taxman66]

Noah,

I believe that Bill or Hubert mentioned them on the forums somewhere, but they are not in the manual or other text based documentation.
You have to go diving through the Scirpts to find the effects/repercussions of your actions.

That trickle is in the Mobilization3 script
1941: 1-2% per turn
1942: 1-2% per turn (cumulative with above)

[nnason]

Taxman66,
Thanks for your quick reply.
SC3 is easy to learn and hard to master. Just like Chess.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: May 19, 1942

Soviets withdraw where they can.
The noose is tightening on Leningrad and the Germans are approaching the final satellite towns south and west of Moscow.
No tech help for them, again.

UK engages elements of the German Navy.
They find (or have already spotted) 2 heavy cruisers, 2 destroyers and a sub (guess he must've built at least 1, or my count
was off).
It takes approximately 60% of the UK navy to sink the 4 surface ships and damage the sub (str:5). The heavier German elements
were not spotted. There was one battle cruiser that was involved on his turn sinking a UK heavy cruiser that must be in the neighborhood somewhere.

The remnants of the UK army in Gibraltar die on transports to an Italian Battleship.
*Made the mistake of spending too much MPP to seriously reinforce them. Figured they'd die, but took a shot. Cost me
30MPP for the off chance they would sneak out.

----
Chinese water torture? Nah, I could handle that. This is more like CIA 'Enhanced Interrogation Tactics'.
Still, I won't deny you your fun of crushing the last serious resistance of the USSR.

US->USSR through Persia MPP still went through. So this appears to possibly be a bug. There is another port in Persia with a road
access (it's hard for me to see the rail lines unless I look real closely at the screen) that is unblocked to the USSR.

[KorutZelva]

May 30th, 1942

I don't know about baku, but the three others seems within reach before fall.
The pride of the Soviet army met the pride of the german army before Moskov. Full entranched tech 2 1-exp Shock Army lose 7 to 0 to the str 13 3-exp tech 4 tank.
Some Bombers refit to ground attack 3
Gibraltar falls
Sevastopol is bombarded by italian bombers, its garrison hopes to get orders to evacuate.

Victory Parade units ordered... Extra large cannon to shoot confetti, bombers with rose petal ordinance

[Taxman66]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

The pride of the Soviet army met the pride of the german army before Moskov. Full entranched tech 2 1-exp Shock Army lose 7 to 0 to the str 13 3-exp tech 4 tank.

Really? Really!?!

Can someone please explain what else can be done?
This is the best Russian INF unit in the game. Fully upgraded (shock armies don't get to level 3 INF weapons), fully entrenched in forts built by an engineer, and at 11 str. It also has the Infantry warfare tech, was supported (iirc) by a HQ and had the bonus for Stalin staying in Moscow. And I'm being told it didn't even do 1 dmg.

Russian fighters appear to be out leveled by 2 so no stopping German planes. Russian tanks are still waiting for lvl 2 so they won't be stopping the lvl 3 much less the level 4 panzers.

[Harrybanana]

I feel your pain Taxman. I just got thumped by Sugar and had a similar experience. A full strength tech level 2 infantry in a forest, entrenched to level 3, behind a fortification and attached to an HQ did 0 damage to a 12 strength, tech level 3 panzer. Keep in mind that each level of experience is like adding a tech level. So a tech level 4 experience level 3 tank is equivalent to a tech level 7 tank, while your tech level 2 experience level 1 shock army is only level 3. But you would still think that with your entrenchment and fortification you could either do more damage or at least take less.

Historically the early war undergunned Panzer IIs were actually more effective against infantry than the late war Panthers. The reason for this is that tanks no longer had the "shock and awe" effect they had early in the war and infantry had weapons (superior AT, Bazookas, panzerfausts, satchel charges, tank mines, etc) to fight back. But in this game it is the opposite. Infantry tech maxes out by 43 at the latest, but the tanks just keep getting better. Meanwhile, researching AT is, in my opinion, next to useless as each side only gets a limited number of AT units.

[KorutZelva]

HQ have damage reduction effect on your unit. So if you consider what Harry say and compound the probable HQ exp gap, many of my unit can only be harmed when the 0:X odds lands an unforeseen casualty.

Although it that particular case my two combat odds vs the shock army were 1:3 and 0:4. So I did dodge a planned damage and out of a possible 3:5 to 0:9 and expected 1:7, I got 0:7.

What to do?

Attack with tanks (at tech level 1 probably not an option for anything else than your heavy tanks if even)
Bombers (costly option since Germany has air superiority)
AT to weaken to allow other units to kill it (but AT require significant tech investment)

However, and that's the thing, if you can't bring it under str 10 you can't make it haemorrhage its experience for a later kill, it can just spring back to str 13 a couple of turns later.

So it might be best to forget trying to kill it and target its supporting units.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: June 10, 1942

The Great Soviet (Pyrrhic) Counter Attack.

The "Little Friends" are no more.
Stalin, seeing that highly experienced and powerful new Panther and Tiger tanks are nigh unstoppable on the attack, decided
to launch all available resources to stop them and hope the defensive works around Moscow are enough to hold off the rest of
the German army. The expense to remove the offending armor corps is horrifically expensive and all but eliminates Russian counter
attack capability.

The Triomphant finds the Scharnhorst near the mouth of the Kiel canal. The pocket battleship had been making more
than a nuisance of herself with hit and run tactics versus the screening ships of the North Sea fleet. The Free French
light cruiser fights a defensive engagement while calling in help. The Heavy Cruiser Norfolk and the Battleships King George V,
and Rodney show up in turn, driving Scharnhorst further into the front canal where Rodney finally finishes her off.
There is some concern with house close a large number of ships are to the German and Danish coast, but it is believed that there
all the German bombers are in Russia. Heavy rains in the North Sea currently prove impenetrable to air power (thus necessitating the
surface battle to begin with).

A periscope was spotted by the fleet on the way to engage Scharnhorst, and Destroyers and Torpedo Boats are called in
to attack the submerged German sub. Depth charges litter the ocean and the wounded sub is crippled, but not yet sunk.

Admiralty receives word about German, or perhaps Italian raiders attack the convoys from the USA.
That is next on the priority list.

Mussolini makes a public announcement about the launching of Italy's new Battleship the Roma.

-----
I thought about trying to kill a couple of German armies instead of the lvl 4, xp 3 Panzer unit, but decided against it.
If that thing can just kill or support a kill against any unit in my forts with impunity, it would chew through what
little defenses I have left. So for better or worse, smart or dumb, and perhaps just for spite I threw nearly everything
I had of offensive value at it and finally killed it.

Here's the gruesome cost:
4 strength points off a Fighter (maybe did 1 back, may not have either)
5 strength points off a 11 str TAC (lvl 0 though). Didn't hurt the Panzer other than maybe lower it's morale & readiness.
4 strength points off a Shock INF Army
2 Tank units
1 Heavy Tank unit
I launched suicide 2nd attacks with the Tank units (Shock INF delivered the killing blow, btw) as they were supper weak (taking 7-8dmg) after their first attack, and I wanted
that Panzer dead (Remember... Spiteful, and Salty too). I could have saved 1 of the Tanks, by using my last Hvy Tank (wasn't sure it was within range),
but that would have left 2 weak tank units that could be killed off on his turn. I figured 1 strong Hvy Tank, was better than 1 weak Hvy Tank, and 1 weak
Tank.

[KorutZelva]

That was a glorious last stand, it brought a tear to my eye. Almost one-shoting tanks on defense. Wow. [X(]

If that's any satisfaction I was over the tank limit for germany so despite being killed in good supply I can't bring it back. [:)]

Stalin town should fall first...

June 21, 1942

[Taxman66]

Sorry no turn today.
Flu running through the family.

[BillRunacre]

I hope you all get better soon.

[KorutZelva]

I know what this is... it's

[Taxman66]

Wife had it bad over the past 3 days. I've now got a touch of it myself, mostly tired with some dizzy spells.

[DeriKuk]

Has anyone given their Stuka the nickname of 'Enola Gay'? [;)]

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: June 28, 1942

Axis creep closer and tighten the noose on Leningrad, Stalingrad and Moscow.
Nothing new to report, can't stand up to his big armor or his air force.
Not enough units to see if he is weak between the three main clusters.
Lvl 2 INF is not good enough even if I had the units.

Persian Gulf evacuees make it home to England.
Even with superior armor and air force, taking out the UK would now be difficult.

Found a sub on the US->UK convoy line. Both DD and sub at lvl 1. Did 3 dmg and took 2. There's another sub on the line somewhere.

Game will be over pretty soon.

[KorutZelva]

July 5th, 1942

USSR income holds but its army gets brushed aside.
Stalingrad falls, last railroad to Kalinin cut by tanks, Leningrad southern defenses destroyed
Franco goes for Portugal
Rommel's panzers reach the outskirst of Qum (hopefully preventing any further supply via the persian convoy)

[KorutZelva]

By the way, if an industrial center is cut-off from the capital can it still be used to place units?

[BillRunacre]

Yes it can.

[Taxman66]

Allied Turn: July 12, 1942

Nothing to report for Russia
No tech help at the end of turn either.

The UK find and beat up (5 dmg) an Italian sub on the US->UK convoy line.
The UK garrisons the Azores
The UK sends the Polish Corp to Lisbon. Maybe the Spanish will choke on it, for a little while anyway.


----
Is there a resignation/surrender method for PBEM, other than waiting for the DE? That would seem rather silly.

Another major mistake I made with Russia was to overinvest early in economic tech. It is now clear that beyond Infantry Weapons (which I have 100% prioritized) that Tanks and Advanced Aircraft also need to be researched ASAP. It appears the only thing that will slow down the German Tank and Air Power advantage.

I still would like to know how much Spying/Research adds to your Breakthrough chances, to determine if this is something Russia should be spending early MPP on as well.