Germans losing all their APs first turn

[PeteAtomic]

So I've noticed in the 43-45 grand campaign that if I play Germans and I do anything with my Admin points, I lose all of them.
They start out with 20 APs the first turn.

Am I supposed to wait a turn before trying to use them, or can I only use them in certain parts of the map on that first turn?

I'm a little confused by it, and I haven't seen anything on the board or in the rules about it.

Thanks for any input.

[Zecke]

wait a turn: P)

[PeteAtomic]

OK, thanks. I thought I had tried that before, but I must have been mistaken.

[Joel Billings]

I don't understand the issue. Looking at the campaign, you should start with 15 Admin points at the start and then receive 5 more when you start turn 2 (the first German turn since German turn 1 is skipped). This means you will have 20 AP points when you first get a chance to do anything. Anything you don't spend should carry over to the next turn when you'll have 5 more points added to your total. Is that not happening?

[PeteAtomic]

No, I lose all my APs on my first turn. This has always happened to me. I thought maybe because I was spending them in Sicily and
there was some kind of rule that was simulating a delayed German response to Operation Husky (?) I don't know. I never knew
why I lost all my APs. I get 5 APs a turn like normal, but for whatever reason I don't retain the beginning APs. The type of stuff
I do in Sicily shouldn't drain all my APs. I might disband one German AA unit, for example. Stuff like that. That doesn't take 15 APs to do.
So your guess is as good as mine.

[Joel Billings]

Are you temp motorizing units and telling them to remain motorized? That will use up APs at the start of every turn. Are you playing against the Allied AI? Can you attach a save from before the turn where you say you lose all your APs (a WA autosave would be good), and tell me how many APs you had at the end of your prior turn? You can email the saves to 2by3@2by3games.com if that's easier. Thanks.

[Lovenought]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Are you temp motorizing units and telling them to remain motorized? That will use up APs at the start of every turn.

Wait, what? Does this apply to Western Allies as well? I thought it was just a higher initial AP cost to permanently motorise them.

[Devonport]

No, there is an AP cost each turn as well as a need for available vehicles.

[PeteAtomic]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Are you temp motorizing units and telling them to remain motorized? That will use up APs at the start of every turn. Are you playing against the Allied AI? Can you attach a save from before the turn where you say you lose all your APs (a WA autosave would be good), and tell me how many APs you had at the end of your prior turn? You can email the saves to 2by3@2by3games.com if that's easier. Thanks.

OK. That might be the culprit. I remember temporarily motorizing one Italian infantry division in south Sicily to get him out of there. And yes, this has happened to me in both instances, against AI and against

another human player.

I found a couple of saves here I'll try to send you. I believe it was against the AI.

OK, so just sent the saves. I think they are the right ones. Turn 2 saves for both WA and axis. I've been experiencing the problem

for the Germans generally on turn 3.

thanks

[Joel Billings]

The turn 2 German save shows you have 17 APs at the start of the turn. When I loaded in the turn 2 Allied turn which follows, I am able to look at the German APs and they are 0. So during your turn (or the Allied logistics phase), you're APs got zeroed out. I advanced the game forward and you have 4 APs in your next turn (which is correct at help level 90). I then advanced the game again through the Allied AI turn and it remembered you had those APs. So my guess is that during your turn 2 you burned through 17 APs. Without a save at the end of your turn 2 I can't say that for sure. Did you look and see how many APs you had left at the end of your turn 2? I advanced the game through the Allied AI and to German turn 4 and you have 8 APs (4+4). So it seems to be working ok. So the question is how did you spend 17 APs on turn 2. Did you switch out a leader, build a bunch of depots or airfields? If you don't have a save and can't remember what you spent APs on, I'd need you to replay turn 2 and to send me a save at the end of turn 2 before you advance to the Allied phase. I'm hoping you just spent the APs without realizing it. [:)]

[Lovenought]

ORIGINAL: Devonport

No, there is an AP cost each turn as well as a need for available vehicles.

That seems really weird. I can't think what the justification might be. The Germans have a whole bunch of infantry divisions that they turned into motorised. So why aren't they paying -20 AP every turn just for the stuff they start with? Pretty much every motorised division in the war was just upgraded from an Infantry division. Is the AP cost purely a gameplay element to nerf the Western Allies?

[Joel Billings]

Yes, it's to make it harder to get more motorized divisions (for either player, but certainly the Allies have more vehicles and would likely be able to abuse the situation).

[PeteAtomic]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The turn 2 German save shows you have 17 APs at the start of the turn. When I loaded in the turn 2 Allied turn which follows, I am able to look at the German APs and they are 0. So during your turn (or the Allied logistics phase), you're APs got zeroed out. I advanced the game forward and you have 4 APs in your next turn (which is correct at help level 90). I then advanced the game again through the Allied AI turn and it remembered you had those APs. So my guess is that during your turn 2 you burned through 17 APs. Without a save at the end of your turn 2 I can't say that for sure. Did you look and see how many APs you had left at the end of your turn 2? I advanced the game through the Allied AI and to German turn 4 and you have 8 APs (4+4). So it seems to be working ok. So the question is how did you spend 17 APs on turn 2. Did you switch out a leader, build a bunch of depots or airfields? If you don't have a save and can't remember what you spent APs on, I'd need you to replay turn 2 and to send me a save at the end of turn 2 before you advance to the Allied phase. I'm hoping you just spent the APs without realizing it. [:)]

Well I must have burned thru them without realizing it. I didn't build a bunch of depots or airfields, or replace any commander. However, I know I probably moved or disbanded a few
Luftwaffe AA units there in Sicily, and temporarily motorized an Italian unit-- and that is what probably took a bunch APs without
realizing it would do that.

I am starting another GC vs. a human player, and I'll watch it this time and see what happens this time if I change the way I use my APs on that first turn.


Thanks for your time looking into it. It sure seemed like a mystery to me. If anything it just made me a tougher German player. I didn't have any APs! LOL [:)]