Gary Grigsby/Joel Billings interview

U2 · Post by U2 » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:25 pm

Hi folks

You can find it here

http://www.wargamer.com/articles/grisby ... interview/

Slick91 · Post by **Slick91** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:49 pm

For some reason you get a password prompt with the above link.

This link seems to work, don't ask me why:

http://www.wargamer.com/articles/grigsb ... interview/

thantis · Post by **thantis** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:34 pm

Wow, great info there. Looks like we won't be seeing WitP in time for Christmas - maybe by my birthday? (April)......

It's really good to see all of the time & effort (and the love) that these guys put into their game........

crsutton · Post by **crsutton** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 7:35 pm

Very informative interview. I am reallly impressed with the complexity and difficulties involved in WITP. I really wonder if it is worth it? (Don't be silly, of course it is!) That is, are they making a computer version of the old Europa title "Fire in the East-Scorched Earth". A game that many owned but so few ever played all the way through. Even Gary seems to have some self doubt about this.

I will buy it anyway. Just to show them support for trying.

Admiral DadMan · Post by **Admiral DadMan** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:28 am

I was a little dismayed to see them whining about having to add "bells and whistles" to gain our interest...

pad152 · Post by **pad152** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:54 pm

--------------------------------------------------
I was a little dismayed to see them whining about having to add "bells and whistles" to gain our interest...
--------------------------------------------------

If you were programing this, you would be whining too. Now you know why nobody ever even tried to copy PacWar let alone WiTP, nobody else makes games like this.

It makes you wonder what Gary and company will do after Witp- maybe a new version of Steel Panters or a nice squad level tactical wargame like computer ambush.?

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:41 pm

What do you think? Does this bode ill for my favorite future project, "UV in the Med?"

TIMJOT · Post by **TIMJOT** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:47 am

Originally posted by pasternakski
What do you think? Does this bode ill for my favorite future project, "UV in the Med?"

I hope not. Personally I see Med game more as a UV clone than a WitP one, as its just one theater and Gary did say UV was the proper scale for what he is trying to do. It shouldnt have the AI difficulties because things will generally flow in one of two directions like UV instead of the mult-directional nightmare as described by GG with WitP.

pry · Post by **pry** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:12 pm

Originally posted by crsutton
are they making a computer version of the old Europa title "Fire in the East-Scorched Earth". A game that many owned but so few ever played all the way through.

Actually originally named Drang Nach Osten and Unentschieden when released in 1973, (Dating myself again) I have always seen the Europa series as conceptually the best war games ever done. It's sheer size at 16 miles a hex and attention to detail were and still are unmatched. UV comes as close as any war-game I have played, especially since PC's killed the board game in the mid 80's.

And truth be told I had rather hoped WITP would indeed become the Pacific version of Europa but after reading the interview I see that the challenges faced by the designers may be to much to overcome and the level of detail is just too great for the current technology, that is a shame as I had this hope against hope that maybe just maybe the UV/WITP engine could be expanded into a true simulation of the entire WWII conflict The Ultimate War Game if you will (Something I would be willing to spend big bucks on and then spend my retirement years gladly playing)

The biggest problem with Europa was it's size few folks had a place to lay it all out and actually be able to play it, My mother got so mad at me for taking over the dining room and also for me coming unglued at any suggestion of actually ever using it for eating. There was a bloody battle over Thanksgiving dinner one year, which I lost along with about 6 months of game play. My Father finally came up with a solution he went out and bought several 4 x 8 sheets of corkboard and about a b-zillion pins and mounted the corkboard to the biggest wall in my bedroom. I then mounted the map to the wall and my friends and I spent months locked up in my bedroom playing.

I still have those maps and die cut counters with little holes in them and about a hundred other war games from the 70's and 80's in boxes in a closet that I can not seem to part with. We now have the perfect platform (the modern PC) to play these monster detailed games but even as far as technology has come in the last 25-30 years we still have not arrived at a point it looks like where it is possible to produce games with a Europa style level of scale and detail.

In a way this interview should end many of the nit-picking arguments in these forums, Now that we know the details we have to accept that WITP will not be all we hoped it would be and the level of detail we wanted is not going to happen. Some things will be recreated in generic fashion and it is a waste of everyone's time to argue if a B-17 could or could not hit a ship moving at 30 knots against Cap that may or may not intercept, Just an example but one of the more outrages ones to be sure. So WITP will end up with maybe not as much detail as UV, but light years ahead of PacWar and that works for me. Will I still purchase WITP you bet!!! And someday, maybe GG will figure out all the problems/limitations and give us the Ultimate Wargame.

Sorry for just rambling on here, you know us Texans we just love to talk

Snigbert · Post by **Snigbert** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:41 pm

So WITP will end up with maybe not as much detail as UV, but light years ahead of PacWar and that works for me. Will I still purchase WITP you bet!!! And someday, maybe GG will figure out all the problems/limitations and give us the Ultimate Wargame.

If you could see how much has been done on WitP, the level of detail currently existing...I dont think you would lose heart. Personally I think Gary was just doing a little venting, since nobody but he and Joel really can grasp the mind numbing amount of work that is going into this game...I think Gary was saying 'Hey, if it isn't everything you have worked it up to be in your mind, dont crucify me! I'm trying!'

If you could see the progress that has been accomplished so far, you wouldn't be worrying about Gary tossing his hands up in the air and surrendering to the overwhelming level of detail. I'm sure he knows that if he doesn't make this game happen, it never will happen. This really does have the potential to be 'The Ultimate Wargame'. It would be great if someone would take up the challenge of making a similar game for the European/Russian War.

Brady · Post by **Brady** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:18 am

Wow 6 months till it's done:(

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:01 am

Produce a decent AI or you won't sell enough to keep you alive.

Fred98 · Post by **Fred98** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:57 am

On the 2 by 3 website, they have 3 games - the third is to be set on the Russian front.

Not in the Med.

Snigbert · Post by **Snigbert** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:23 am

Is that recently updated? I remember reading somewhere that the 2by3 guys had stated the 3rd game was in the Med theatre. That 2by3 page may have not been updated for a while.

Fred98 · Post by **Fred98** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:59 am

The "Med" is a dream of some players.

If you say it often enough people start to believe it.

Sonny · Post by **Sonny** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 5:16 pm

Originally posted by Joe 98
The "Med" is a dream of some players.

If you say it often enough people start to believe it.

Med, Med, Med, Med, (is that often enough?).

After someone had mentioned it I thought that the best way to go would be to follow up UV with a Med game and then go back to the Pacific with WitP. But hey, I'll take it the way it is.

Mike_B20 · Post by **Mike_B20** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:18 pm

I've been a great fan of Gary Grigsby ever since buying Typhoon of Steel in the mid 80's for my Commodore 64.
I was totally absorbed by that game for yonks.

Interesting to read that he feels he may be hitting the wall with WITP and that he is human after all.
Here's hoping he pulls it off and gives us yet another classic.

color · Post by **color** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:04 pm

Originally posted by Joe 98
On the 2 by 3 website, they have 3 games - the third is to be set on the Russian front.

Not in the Med.

If you check the website you will see development on the Russian Front game is currently on hold.

Jorgen

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 7:14 pm

Originally posted by Sonny
Med, Med, Med, Med, (is that often enough?).

After someone had mentioned it I thought that the best way to go would be to follow up UV with a Med game and then go back to the Pacific with WitP. But hey, I'll take it the way it is.

Hi Guys

The med is the next game planned in the series. It will be based more on the UV then WITP. Of course we may change our minds but that is the plan.

David

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:42 pm

Originally posted by David Heath
Hi Guys

The med is the next game planned in the series. It will be based more on the UV then WITP. Of course we may change our minds but that is the plan.

David

Bwahahahaha! PLEASE don't change your minds...