CSV newbie queries

[vinnie71]

New to the game and still getting to understand some of the mechanics. The Vietnam campaigns is what attracted me to this title. However, I have some questions on the CSV scenario.

1) what exactly is the function of the Calendar units in the offmap regions? What to do with them?
2) what is the role of the supply units on the islands?
3) what is the best way of scoring EEV points as SV against the North? Is there actually a way to do it?

Thanks in advance for the help!

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
New to the game and still getting to understand some of the mechanics. The Vietnam campaigns is
what attracted me to this title. However, I have some questions on the CSV scenario.

CSV is one of my favorites and I had the honor to be one of the playtesters on the CSV project
and I played against Curt Chambers even. That was years ago however. I was over there two
years and a lot of the places I've been are on the map. It brings back memories playing this
title.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
1) what exactly is the function of the Calendar units in the offmap regions? What to do with them?

It sounds like you are playing one of the older versions of this scenario. There's an update:
tm.asp?m=4390629

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
2) what is the role of the supply units on the islands?

I think you mean the pure transportation units parked on Guam. The unit(s) are made up of a lot of
trucks and you can dig the unit in and lend all those trucks to the supply enhancement feature and
if you are really hurting for trucks in-country you can disband the unit to put those trucks in
the replacement pools for distribution to the units needing trucks.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
3) what is the best way of scoring EEV points as SV against the North? Is there actually a way to do it?

The way it works is that the NVA and VC units win points by converting hexes to NVA control and destroying
SVN units. So if SVN wants to win they will probably endeavor to convert all the NVA hexes to friendly
control and if I was playing the SNV side I'd start at the coast and convert hexes torward the mountains
of Laos in the west. There's probably sectoins of the map that neither side goes and you don't have to
worry about those hexes. I'm thinking of the pure mountain hexes that neither side gets much supply from;

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
Thanks in advance for the help!

What would really help is for you to do an AAR so I can follow your progress and make helpful suggestions.
Even a hot-seat game would be alright.

[vinnie71]

Thanks for the heads up re the update. Is it my impression that there are some issues with this update or not?

Just bought the game (like last week) specifically for the Vietnam scenarios because I've been trying to find a good strategic Vietnam game for years. I'm getting a bit confused with all the Vietnam scenarios, and am still sampling around - kind of spoilt for choice[:)].

Regarding strategy, at the 9th turn I brought in the 3rd Marine, 173 Airborne, MACV support group, 1/5 Mech and just now, the 1st Cavalry.

- 3rd Marine which is anchored at Khe San and helps the 18 division hold the line in the north. Still got problems near Hue where I commited some MPs and engineers (in lieu of other troops) trying to push back some pesky VC battalion that must be made up of marathon runners as is constantly eludes me.

-173rd at Ban Me Thuot on the frontier with Cambodia trying to intercept infiltrators. Not much luck in interception but have cleared a very large area around the base.

-MACV support group is impressive - Armoured cavalry/special forces/ engineers and choppers. Used it to clear the environs of Saigon in conjunction with the Vietnamese Marine and Airborne Brigades.

- the 1/5 Mech may be a strange choice to bring so early on, but I find it very much worth it as its mix of armour and armoured infantry allows me to identify areas that are occupied by the VC, with the armour moving along the road and blocking VC units, with the infantry etc acting as the hammer. Caught several VC units that were overbold to the east of Saigon

-1st Cavalry is still setting up shop

- The south is strangely quite with several successful operations conducted by the regular AVRN divisions and rangers. I'd love to bring in the Armoured Cavalry to support them, but I don't want to expand American involvement too quickly as I'm at EEV of 16. The positive thing is that I've got a ROK division showing up. Still I think that I'm moving too fast.

BTW are the air divisions worth it as they come in with only a fraction of the planes?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
Thanks for the heads up re the update. Is it my impression that there are some issues with this update or not?

I've heard through the grapevine that yes, setting the PO to play the NVA side before you start
the game will handle the events just fine but that setting the game to hot-seat and then after
the game gives you control of the units you set the player options for the computer player to be
Elmer the events for turn one will have been "skipped" by the NVA and the game is messed up
because of that. AND that if the PO has been set up right from the beginning and the events do
fire properly, one of the events is to spawn a SAC unit on guam that is set to INT missions and
invariably this SAC unit attacks the Mig-15 based in Hanoi where there's two separate AA units
in the hex. So what happens is that the SAC unit makes it's attack, the two AA units evaporate
as does the SAC unit, followed shortly by a crash to desktop. So it appears that there needss to
be a slight adjustment and Curt is looking into it. He said something about modifying the event
that spawns the B-52's to maybe a different model plane and therefore a shorter range so that the
Hanoi attack is somehow avoided. I'm not sure what causes the CTD but if Curt's fix makes that
go away too then we're in business.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
Just bought the game (like last week) specifically for the Vietnam scenarios because I've been trying to find a good strategic Vietnam game for years. I'm getting a bit confused with all the Vietnam scenarios, and am still sampling around - kind of spoilt for choice[:)].

CSV is my favorite and I've still got the 5.0 version on my computer so I'm not out in the dark
at least. I've started up 4.0.1.22 and new gamed CSV with the computer playing the computer and
it's going as we speak, while I'm typing this so I've gotten past the version 5.1 Hanoi attack
problem. I just now did a alt-tab back to TOAW to check on the progress while I'm typing this
post and it's on turn two moving the Allied units, still cooking. The new version exe is going
to be in the next official patch to the public. I'm not sure when.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
Regarding strategy, at the 9th turn I brought in the 3rd Marine, 173 Airborne, MACV support group, 1/5 Mech and just now, the 1st Cavalry.

I don't remember what turn you said you were on.....still turn one? If so, um......Elmer will try
to cross the DMZ at some point, soon, so I'd reccomend that the 3rd Marines go north and the south
needs some loving care before the VC drop ALL the bridges in the delta. I've seen good use of
ARVN rangers but I don't remember what group you have to bring in to get those. Maybe
early Vietnamization or something. Anything that's airmobile would be good. Multiplies your
assets remarkably. You'll need helicopters for anything besides the 1st CAV so I'm glad to see
you chose those guys. The Mechanized people would be good where thare's a lot of road to guard,
probably along the coast to keep I-1 open.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
- 3rd Marine which is anchored at Khe San and helps the 18 division hold the line in the north. Still got problems near Hue where I commited some MPs and engineers (in lieu of other troops) trying to push back some pesky VC battalion that must be made up of marathon runners as it constantly eludes me.

Don't you just hate it when a bn of NVA arty sneak close enough to the airbase at Danang
( one of them ) to launch some 122's and THEN disband so you can't get any payback.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
-173rd at Ban Me Thuot on the frontier with Cambodia trying to intercept infiltrators. Not much luck in interception but have cleared a very large area around the base.

That's cool. Good move putting them there. Have you sufficient helicopter assets present to move
them enmasse? That might be something to look into. Maybe some extra arty for them. Bad guys
move east from the trail frequently in that area and it's hard to stop all of them at times.
If you're playing with borders off it's especially hard because you have to then be proactive and
go look around. Usually bumping into them by accident just to see them disband before you can
kill them.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
-MACV support group is impressive - Armoured cavalry/special forces/ engineers and choppers. Used it to clear the environs of Saigon in conjunction with the Vietnamese Marine and Airborne Brigades.

Sometimes the Political situation demands the Vietnamese Marines to stay in the palace environs
just in case there's a coup attempt, again, and that's abstracted by the game as the formation
being in garrison mode. Are they still in garrison mode or can you use them offensively?

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
- the 1/5 Mech may be a strange choice to bring so early on, but I find it very much worth it as its mix of armour and armoured infantry allows me to identify areas that are occupied by the VC, with the armour moving along the road and blocking VC units, with the infantry etc acting as the hammer. Caught several VC units that were overbold to the east of Saigon

Excellent. They are fast movers so the place to use them is where they can fast move. I was going
to suggest down south, around Saigon, along the coast, etc. Where there's roads to protect.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
-1st Cavalry is still setting up shop

Where are they operating? I understand that the entire division and all it's elements are
airmobile and can move enmasse, yes?

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
- The south is strangely quiet with several successful operations conducted by the regular AVRN divisions and rangers. I'd love to bring in the Armoured Cavalry to support them, but I don't want to expand American involvement too quickly as I'm at EEV of 16. The positive thing is that I've got a ROK division showing up. Still I think that I'm moving too fast.

That's the maddening thing about the EEV thing, it's almost but not quite out of your control.
Judging when to bring in more troops is what Westmoreland wrestled with. Good luck.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
BTW are the air divisions worth it as they come in with only a fraction of the planes?

It's all contingent on what kind of planes and what mission you give them, etc. If you're
worried about aerial attacks from Hanoi on Saigon's helicopters you might want to enlist the
services of the group(s) that have lots of fighters or fighter-bombers. If you're going to
try to interdict along the trail you'd need a lot of bombers. If the group you choose
hasn't any suitable planes for your mission needs you're largely out of luck.

[vinnie71]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
Thanks for the heads up re the update. Is it my impression that there are some issues with this update or not?

I've heard through the grapevine that yes, setting the PO to play the NVA side before you start
the game will handle the events just fine but that setting the game to hot-seat and then after
the game gives you control of the units you set the player options for the computer player to be
Elmer the events for turn one will have been "skipped" by the NVA and the game is messed up
because of that. AND that if the PO has been set up right from the beginning and the events do
fire properly, one of the events is to spawn a SAC unit on guam that is set to INT missions and
invariably this SAC unit attacks the Mig-15 based in Hanoi where there's two separate AA units
in the hex. So what happens is that the SAC unit makes it's attack, the two AA units evaporate
as does the SAC unit, followed shortly by a crash to desktop. So it appears that there needss to
be a slight adjustment and Curt is looking into it. He said something about modifying the event
that spawns the B-52's to maybe a different model plane and therefore a shorter range so that the
Hanoi attack is somehow avoided. I'm not sure what causes the CTD but if Curt's fix makes that
go away too then we're in business.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
Just bought the game (like last week) specifically for the Vietnam scenarios because I've been trying to find a good strategic Vietnam game for years. I'm getting a bit confused with all the Vietnam scenarios, and am still sampling around - kind of spoilt for choice[:)].

CSV is my favorite and I've still got the 5.0 version on my computer so I'm not out in the dark
at least. I've started up 4.0.1.22 and new gamed CSV with the computer playing the computer and
it's going as we speak, while I'm typing this so I've gotten past the version 5.1 Hanoi attack
problem. I just now did a alt-tab back to TOAW to check on the progress while I'm typing this
post and it's on turn two moving the Allied units, still cooking. The new version exe is going
to be in the next official patch to the public. I'm not sure when.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
Regarding strategy, at the 9th turn I brought in the 3rd Marine, 173 Airborne, MACV support group, 1/5 Mech and just now, the 1st Cavalry.

I don't remember what turn you said you were on.....still turn one? If so, um......Elmer will try
to cross the DMZ at some point, soon, so I'd reccomend that the 3rd Marines go north and the south
needs some loving care before the VC drop ALL the bridges in the delta. I've seen good use of
ARVN rangers but I don't remember what group you have to bring in to get those. Maybe
early Vietnamization or something. Anything that's airmobile would be good. Multiplies your
assets remarkably. You'll need helicopters for anything besides the 1st CAV so I'm glad to see
you chose those guys. The Mechanized people would be good where thare's a lot of road to guard,
probably along the coast to keep I-1 open.

ORIGINAL: vinnie71
- the 1/5 Mech may be a strange choice to bring so early on, but I find it very much worth it as its mix of armour and armoured infantry allows me to identify areas that are occupied by the VC, with the armour moving along the road and blocking VC units, with the infantry etc acting as the hammer. Caught several VC units that were overbold to the east of Saigon

Excellent. They are fast movers so the place to use them is where they can fast move. I was going
to suggest down south, around Saigon, along the coast, etc. Where there's roads to protect.

The arrival of the ROK division means that I can send this brigade south instead of bringing the armoured cavalry regiment.

Its true, its very difficult to make a really good choice. Early Vietnamisation would be nice but costly (I'm assuming that later on in the game there is the 'normal' vietnamisation event). Don't see much point in strategic bombing though. However, bringing US troops, while being desirable, is also a drag on the EEV.

[larryfulkerson]

Its true, its very difficult to make a really good choice. Early Vietnamisation would be nice but costly (I'm assuming that later on in the game there is the 'normal' vietnamisation event). Don't see much point in strategic bombing though. However, bringing US troops, while being desirable, is also a drag on the EEV.

I tend to bring in too much stuff too early when I play the Allies. Maybe I'm paranoid.

[vinnie71]

Just realised that I lost half my post for some reason...

In this game the Viet Marines are active like 2/3 of the time. But they are a beast at destroying light stacks. Also the Airmobile Brigade is pretty good destroying VC concentrations.

Re 1st Cavalry I'll base it at Pleiku as it is quite a central point, with several airfields. It will be the fire brigade against small fry and the breakwater in case NVA came enmasee across the border at that point.

BTW re update, I think I'll wait for the fix before updating.

[vinnie71]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Its true, its very difficult to make a really good choice. Early Vietnamisation would be nice but costly (I'm assuming that later on in the game there is the 'normal' vietnamisation event). Don't see much point in strategic bombing though. However, bringing US troops, while being desirable, is also a drag on the EEV.

I tend to bring in too much stuff too early when I play the Allies. Maybe I'm paranoid.

But how does it play in the long run? The scenario is quite long and the EEV count is essentially stacked against the allies. Don't want to lose the game because of the EEV thingy...[:)]

[larryfulkerson]

BTW re update, I think I'll wait for the fix before updating.

Are you talking about updating the scenario or updating your game engine?
You don't have to be afraid of doing either.

[vinnie71]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

BTW re update, I think I'll wait for the fix before updating.

Are you talking about updating the scenario or updating your game engine?
You don't have to be afraid of doing either.

I bought TAOW IV so my guess is that the game engine is the latest. Its the scenario that I would need to update as I've got version 5.0. Am I right?

[larryfulkerson]

I bought TAOW IV so my guess is that the game engine is the latest.

There's been a patch since the official game release. You might want to look into that.

Its the scenario that I would need to update as I've got version 5.0. Am I right?

yes you're right. You can get the update to the scenario here:
tm.asp?m=4390629

[Raindem]

Thanks for answering those questions Larry. Just a couple more quick notes on your discussion.

The latest update works just fine with the latest TOAW 4 update. But make sure to download the latest TOAW update from the beta forum.

PO questions. Yes, if you are going to play against the PO then make sure it is selected correctly in the scenario open dialog so that PO is active during 1st turn. I have turn 1 events set up for the PO and if you switch to it on Turn 2 or later I can guarantee it won't play right.

Larry, as to those pesky B-52s the PO likes to throw at you on Turn 1. That's what Elmer does. If the SAC formation comes in at a later time there is no control over what the PO does with those planes. This way I can at least assign them missions comensurate with their abilities. Without some help in the air war I feel that the Allied PO might be too easy to beat. It is a long scenario and I doubt that anytthing that happens on Turn 1 is going to have a lasting impact. So I suggest you play 20 or 30 turns against Elmer before forming your final opinion. If you still feel the Turn 1 S.A.C. formation messes things up I will gladly remove them (or find another way to put a muzzle on them) for the next update.

Air divisions. Yes, you need them. Even though they come in at partial strength they will build up quickly. The air replacements will enter regardless. So if you don't purchase the divisions all those planes will just pile up in the replacement pool without ever being used. The purchase of those air divisions is meant to reflect the infrastructure costs (support personnel, runways, transport, storage. fuel, maintenance) more than the cost of the actual planes themselves.

The "islands" you see at the map edge are just staging areas for U.S. troops. They are abstract representations of places that are far off the map. The supply points are simply to keep your reinforcements at full strength until you are ready to ship them to the mainland. Larry is correct about the transport units. If you leave them alone you will get a supply bump for Transport Asset Sharing (although I don't think you have to dig them in for this benefit to occur). If you run short of trucks in your combat units you can disband them for a quick shot of replacements. I've never disbanded them in any game I've played because the need didn't arise.

[vinnie71]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I bought TAOW IV so my guess is that the game engine is the latest.

There's been a patch since the official game release. You might want to look into that.

Its the scenario that I would need to update as I've got version 5.0. Am I right?

yes you're right. You can get the update to the scenario here:
tm.asp?m=4390629

Installed the patch but can't confirm it. However, I can't find the file for the scenario to over write. Where is it?

[larryfulkerson]

Installed the patch but can't confirm it. However, I can't find the file for the scenario to over write. Where is it?

It's in the Custom Graphics scenario folder.

[vinnie71]

Managed to install both... guess I have to restart[:)]

[vinnie71]

ORIGINAL: Raindem

Thanks for answering those questions Larry. Just a couple more quick notes on your discussion.

The latest update works just fine with the latest TOAW 4 update. But make sure to download the latest TOAW update from the beta forum.

PO questions. Yes, if you are going to play against the PO then make sure it is selected correctly in the scenario open dialog so that PO is active during 1st turn. I have turn 1 events set up for the PO and if you switch to it on Turn 2 or later I can guarantee it won't play right.

Larry, as to those pesky B-52s the PO likes to throw at you on Turn 1. That's what Elmer does. If the SAC formation comes in at a later time there is no control over what the PO does with those planes. This way I can at least assign them missions comensurate with their abilities. Without some help in the air war I feel that the Allied PO might be too easy to beat. It is a long scenario and I doubt that anytthing that happens on Turn 1 is going to have a lasting impact. So I suggest you play 20 or 30 turns against Elmer before forming your final opinion. If you still feel the Turn 1 S.A.C. formation messes things up I will gladly remove them (or find another way to put a muzzle on them) for the next update.

Air divisions. Yes, you need them. Even though they come in at partial strength they will build up quickly. The air replacements will enter regardless. So if you don't purchase the divisions all those planes will just pile up in the replacement pool without ever being used. The purchase of those air divisions is meant to reflect the infrastructure costs (support personnel, runways, transport, storage. fuel, maintenance) more than the cost of the actual planes themselves.

The "islands" you see at the map edge are just staging areas for U.S. troops. They are abstract representations of places that are far off the map. The supply points are simply to keep your reinforcements at full strength until you are ready to ship them to the mainland. Larry is correct about the transport units. If you leave them alone you will get a supply bump for Transport Asset Sharing (although I don't think you have to dig them in for this benefit to occur). If you run short of trucks in your combat units you can disband them for a quick shot of replacements. I've never disbanded them in any game I've played because the need didn't arise.

Much appreciated. Starting a new game now [:)]

[larryfulkerson]

Starting a new game now

Do me a big favor and do an AAR about it so I can watch your progress. With pictures
of course.

[vinnie71]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Starting a new game now

Do me a big favor and do an AAR about it so I can watch your progress. With pictures
of course.

Trying to take the game on a test run and I'm not that proficient... besides I've no idea how to take and upload pictures. I'm so negated in IT...[:(][:o]

[larryfulkerson]

Trying to take the game on a test run and I'm not that proficient...

You may not be yet you just need some time to practice.....I get it. I just
thought I'd offer to help you.

...besides I've no idea how to take and upload pictures. I'm so negated in IT.

Now we DO have a problem. Your keyboard probably has a PrtScrn button on it
somewhere and if you push it you'll probably have a copy of your screen in
the clipboard and then if you were to open MSPaint and do a "paste" operation
you'd have that copy appear on the canvas so to speak, ready to edit or
annotate or crop it or etc. Just need some practice. I can put something
together to demonstrate uploading pictures.

[vinnie71]

With the update, the game keeps dying on turn 4...