The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:55 am

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Bihoro: Can you send in one Judy group with massive George escorts from here with range 6 to go after his outlying TFs that are 2 hexes out from Shikuka?

Moonlight is at 78%. Are you setting anything up to do some night time SC TF attacks?

All good ideas, but these are essentially not worth the effort. All YMS or other small ASW TFs. I'll be trying things as I can, but after last turn I will be more careful. The DS is potent, and since he probably has plentiful airframes in the pools after months of inactivity, the next strikes have to be timed to be useful in weakening the DS just before using the KB, if possible.

crsutton · Post by **crsutton** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:04 am

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: obvert

Both Shikuka and Toyohara are level 1 fields, so only FP could go there.

Huh?

To strike anything

But I do not think there is any limitation to VR units flying replacements to carriers from any size airfield. Not sure about this.

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:45 am

ORIGINAL: crsutton

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Huh?

To strike anything

But I do not think there is any limitation to VR units flying replacements to carriers from any size airfield. Not sure about this.

Correct.

This was originally about striking at 0 hex range form Shikuka when I still had the base. [:)]

Lowpe · Post by **Lowpe** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:37 am

I thought that CR would gear the Deathstar defensively, with only likely shorter strike ranges, and I think that proved to be true your 8 hex strike. I also don't think the Allies are used to the KB being used late in the game like you did.

The problem with striking vulnerable island bases is prep. Impossible to get surprise, but you can cause him to react to your prep or prep for another base and hope when you convert it over just prior to the invasion you achieve 25% prep.

To tell you the truth, I think the Allies would just let you run wild in any attack away from the Home Islands/Kuriles/Aleutians unless you threatened achieving some serious permanent VP as say in bombing Oz.

Give us your kamikaze plans, please.[;)] What planes? How many squadrons? Did your 10 Depot divisions form up?

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:46 am

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I thought that CR would gear the Deathstar defensively, with only likely shorter strike ranges, and I think that proved to be true your 8 hex strike. I also don't think the Allies are used to the KB being used late in the game like you did.

The problem with striking vulnerable island bases is prep. Impossible to get surprise, but you can cause him to react to your prep or prep for another base and hope when you convert it over just prior to the invasion you achieve 25% prep.

To tell you the truth, I think the Allies would just let you run wild in any attack away from the Home Islands/Kuriles/Aleutians unless you threatened achieving some serious permanent VP as say in bombing Oz.

Give us your kamikaze plans, please.[;)] What planes? How many squadrons? Did your 10 Depot divisions form up?

Yep. It appears to be a large proportion of fighters. So far this seems fine, and has provided him with a few major kills, but he also lost an opportunity to hit the KB and most likely lost a CV with a few more damaged. I see the benefits of this, but long term I hope he keeps doing it. It also allows other IJA ships to operate in range of the DS bringing supply and troops to nearby bases, ASW to hit subs and clear the path for the KB to move in, and generally means I have the choice of when and how to be offensive.

As for the far flung ops idea, I do like the OZ option, but to be real, it's only a few thousand VPs we're talking about. I just ran into subs off of Perth and Darwin, so these are not unpatrolled areas either. I think having played J-III for a few years he is used to someone hitting anything possible in the most remote locations.

That said, I may do some recon down under just to see what I can spot. Port Agusta is in range of a bunch of good targets, most importantly Broken Hills, but also the big bases. The G3M3 can hit at a distance if there is no CAP. Could be worth it if I can get it with minimal troops. On the other hand the Allies have very long-legged planes these days too, and 4Es plus P-38s could be there within 2-3 days, plus the plentiful FM-1 and FM-2 from the Solomons. I know he still has some fighters down there.

As for Kami plans, I don't have kamis yet!!! Not close enough.

My plans are in place, with 2E Frances/Peggy-T being big players. I'll also use a lot of Judy D4Y3-4 as my production is huge on these. I'm intrigued by the comment earlier about the Judy recon being useful in this role. I'll also have the Myrt soon, so if recons work, that is a very fast plane and could bust through sometimes.

No Home Island bases have been taken yet, so no reinforcements. [:(]

Lokasenna · Post by **Lokasenna** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:06 pm

What does the mouseover of deathstar look like for plane numbers? Does it actually show a heavy weighting towards fighters at the expense of bombers, or are there simply enough CVs/CVEs present to support a 900-plane CAP?

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:28 pm

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

What does the mouseover of deathstar look like for plane numbers? Does it actually show a heavy weighting towards fighters at the expense of bombers, or are there simply enough CVs/CVEs present to support a 900-plane CAP?

I've only ever gotten pieces of it. Because he loads 1,000 ships in a hex there is no way to see clearly. It's always a guess until a sub sneaks in there. [;)]

Here is a shot of some parts. Does look a bit weighted toward fighters.

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:56 pm

[font="Times New Roman"]June 12-13, 1944[/font]

The 12th and 13th offer nothing new really. Not much action, and little information about the DS or other Allied moves or plans here. Shikuka goes up a level a day, and a few YMS are hit by outlying Judys from Para and Onneketon-Jima.

The bombardment near Prome shows that the Chinese have been joined by more Chindits and another indian Brigade. Not enough to worry about yet. He's also moving from the hex next to prime, which could either be to reinforce and try to break through, or to let these troops move toward Toungou. Either way, if it looks like he will bring troops around and try to head down the other road I'll just bring everyone back and shorten the lines n anticipation of the Thai withdrawal.
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 12, 1944
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Ground combat at 55,51 (near Prome)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 59559 troops, 573 guns, 948 vehicles, Assault Value = 1886

Defending force 64458 troops, 476 guns, 217 vehicles, Assault Value = 1741

Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
118 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 9 (5 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Division
48th Division
18th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
14th Tank Regiment
32nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
18th Division
7th RTA Division
60th Field AA Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Air Defense AA Battalion
2nd Air Defense AA Regiment
32nd Air Defense AA Battalion
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Ind.AA Gun Co
52nd Field AA Battalion
9th RF Gun Battalion
7th RF Gun Battalion
10th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
147th(Sep) Infantry Regiment
5th Chinese Corps
46th Indian Brigade
Guides Cavalry Regiment
23rd Chindit Brigade
14th Chindit Brigade
50th Indian Para Brigade
6th Chinese Corps

[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
[font="Trebuchet MS"]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ketoi-jima at 131,46

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 36
D4Y1 Judy x 26

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
YMS-395, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-116
YMS-281, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-113

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Onnekotan-jima at 133,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y4 Judy x 35
N1K2-J George x 17

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
YMS-271, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
YMS-316
YMS-276, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-342, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
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obvert · Post by **obvert** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:16 pm

[font="Times New Roman"]Fighter Pools[/font]

Here is a look at the fighter pools. I've gone through a bit lately, and have to get a bit more conservative unless I want to get in trouble. I'm still waiting for the Oscar VI next month to bump that production up, and the Jack J2M5, which will be the best IJN plane until the George N1K5 comes in about October. I should get the Jack in August.

Also in August should come the Frank Ki-84b, which will be bomber killer #1. It's a better version of the Ki-84a with CL 20mm. It'll also mean production bumps into the range I need it to be in right now.

I've been conservative with airframes and R & D this game, hoping to get through with enough supply to make a go of it late. We'll see if the Allies can take advantage of this position near Japanese industry. I'm a lot less optimistic than I was a few months ago, but it's getting fun again at least! [:)]

Lowpe · Post by **Lowpe** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:59 pm

It will be interesting to see what the Allies target with their bombing campaign coming up. I have a feeling your night fighters will get a work out.

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:10 pm

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

It will be interesting to see what the Allies target with their bombing campaign coming up. I have a feeling your night fighters will get a work out.

I do too. I hate that two groups disband in the cull of July. I have to look through the complete list soon and make sure I'm not missing any to convert.

I'm trying tot bring virtually all of the AA not in Burma back to the HI. Along with that will come all of the big base forces, with their DP guns, and a few more CD gun units. They're heading for the most obvious next invasions though, if I can get them there.

Shikuka is a level 7, and almost all fighters so far.

PaxMondo · Post by **PaxMondo** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:45 pm

ORIGINAL: obvert

[font="Times New Roman"]Fighter Pools[/font]
Here is a look at the fighter pools. I've gone through a bit lately, and have to get a bit more conservative unless I want to get in trouble.

I think you are good. You are kicking out ~800 fighter/month at the moment (mid 44) and as you note you have 4 RnD projects that will end in the next few months and convert to production.
That suggests by 10/44 your fighter production will be +1000/month consisting of mostly final production models.

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:34 am

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

[font="Times New Roman"]Fighter Pools[/font]
Here is a look at the fighter pools. I've gone through a bit lately, and have to get a bit more conservative unless I want to get in trouble.

I think you are good. You are kicking out ~800 fighter/month at the moment (mid 44) and as you note you have 4 RnD projects that will end in the next few months and convert to production.
That suggests by 10/44 your fighter production will be +1000/month consisting of mostly final production models.

My Sams are going incredibly slowly. Can't get them to repair though I have 4 x 30 going. My only wish is that the ki-84r and the ki-83 would be here now. I need sweepers!!

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:19 am

[font="Times New Roman"]June 14-15, 1944[/font]

These turns have been uneventful, unless you happen to be on a sub or an ASW boat. Lots of action there. The IJN isn't faring well, but these are the slow 14 knot RO subs. I'd noticed the DS seems to be moving toward Paramushiro. It went 7 hexes on the 14th, then 6 hexes on the 15th. Sounds like APA speed.

I'm sending all available transport and patrols to complete the addition of a large brigade to Para to bring it's AV to 400+. Not enough, but better. Onneketon is also beefing up and should be to 350 by the end of the day. I'e got fighters out there to cover too.

I decided on the 15th to give the Allies a scare by sending the KB to the hex next to Wakkanai, since the DS is no longer covering Shikuka, and testing the CAP with a reduced sweep. I wanted to see the reaction. Does he bring the DS back in? Does the CAP grow? Anything else, like surface ship reaction?

All worked with the 4 x Ki-100 giving a good look at what is flying, and even knocking down a Hellcat for no losses. Minor victories! [:D]

The trouble was that the Allies didn't spot the KB!! It's within 8 hexes of Shikuka, and 4 hexes of Toyohara. Not a single search plane discovery there. In fact all search in the Kuriles seems limited to the Eastern end, reinforcing my fear he's quickly moving in for stage 3 landings out there.

So I have some decisions to make. Next turn will be interesting!!
[font="Trebuchet MS"][/font]
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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 15, 1944
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Sub attack near Shimushiri-jima at 132,50

Japanese Ships
E Tomozuru

Allied Ships
SS Becuna, hits 7

SS Becuna launches 6 torpedoes at E Tomozuru
E Tomozuru fails to find sub, continues to search...

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ASW attack near Paramushiro-jima at 137,44

Japanese Ships
SS RO-113, hits 6

Allied Ships
DD Callaghan
DD Morrison

SS RO-113 launches 4 torpedoes at DD Callaghan
DD Morrison attacking submerged sub ....

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Submarine attack near Paramushiro-jima at 137,44

Japanese Ships
SS I-17, hits 31, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PF Hutchinson
PF Eugene
PF Ogden

SS I-17 is sighted by escort
I-17 diving deep ....

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ASW attack near Paramushiro-jima at 137,44

Japanese Ships
SS RO-107, hits 15, heavy damage

Allied Ships
xAK Zvir
xAK Forafric
xAK Clan Macneil
xAK Oakbank
xAK Aloe
xAK African Prince
DE Wesson

SS RO-107 is sighted by escort
DE Wesson attacking submerged sub ....

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ASW attack near Paramushiro-jima at 137,45

Japanese Ships
SS RO-100, hits 10, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Rowe

SS RO-100 launches 4 torpedoes at DD Rowe
RO-100 diving deep ....

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Morning Air attack on Shikuka , at 126,43

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 39,090 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-100-I Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 16
P-39D Airacobra x 8
P-39N1 Airacobra x 13
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 57
P-51B Mustang x 10
F4U-1 Corsair x 11
F4U-1A Corsair x 68
F6F-3 Hellcat x 64

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-100-I Tony sweeping at 36090 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

obvert · Post by **obvert** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:34 pm