Four Seasons with Models

[ernieschwitz]

Thanks for that Ormand. If I might add the DC road graphics, and rail are available to all ATG players, in an official patch to ATG (meaning if you are fully updated you have them). They are located in the alt graphics folder.

[lion_of_judah]

any plans on making Indian, Israeli and other nations generals

[Ormand]

Yes. I am planning to create generals for all the peoples I introduced in the mods, plus some. It will take a little while. It is about 1 week/people. I am on vacation until 1/9 when I'll start again. I had trouble finding decent photos for Israeli generals as well. I am surprised how difficult it is to find good pictures. If you have access to some, that would help. Mostly, I need photos of reasonable resolution, wearing headgear, and hopefully a closed neck, but I could try an open shirt for once. The trick would be in matching the head and the skin up. But, I do plan to continue with generals for African, Indian, Italian, Spanish, Scandinavian, and Indonesia. And, as a bonus, Israel. The timeline for completion is probably around the end of February or early March, and I don't know what order yet.

[lion_of_judah]

I have Israeli officers but they do not have headgear. It is very hard to find them with any. I do have Indian officers and they do have headgear. Shoot me an email and I'll send them to you. You can send it to fparrish64 at outlook.com

[LJBurstyn]

Not sure this is the place to mention this:

Have officers getting promotions but name is missing. Same officer's names are missing when they activate a feature.
Most Officers who are injured are not listed as wounded (only 1 of 7 had message saying officer was wounded).

Some of my units that are in full supply and are in clear weather hexes are grayed out for movement??

[Ormand]

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

Have officers getting promotions but name is missing. Same officer's names are missing when they activate a feature.
Most Officers who are injured are not listed as wounded (only 1 of 7 had message saying officer was wounded).

This will probably take some research on my part. I am not sure what could be going on here. In principle, I have taken this all from ANewdawn, and should be identical unless I made a change of some sort. Could you send the game? Can it perchance be edited?

Some of my units that are in full supply and are in clear weather hexes are grayed out for movement??

This is likely due to a sub formation in the unit not having enough action points to move a single hex. I saw this in a game I had except the unit was out of supply, and most likely had lost sufficient readiness to not be able to move a mountain hex. The same could be going on here, for example, an artillery unit that got moved into a "forbidden" hex because it had transport, which then was a casualty. Again, it would be good to see the game.

I am also in the midst of some tweaks. I am aware that the regiments at2 file has a problem with the heavy artillery (which was fixed and got broken again). I am tweaking some movements and some SFT values based on some play testing. I should have an updated version next week. I am still sort of on vacation actually.

[LJBurstyn]

I sent you a copy via email. I don't want to interrupt your vacation so I can wait. Again I am having problems uploading stuff....very aggravating. Thinking seriously about going to another ISP but have no idea as to whom services this remote area with fast ISP.

[Khanti]

It seems this mod have all stuff ATG should have after those years. I'm not very familar with it yet, so just a quick question: Do battleships / cruisers with artillery range ever use those "shore bombardment" option when commanded by AI?
I've always seen in normal ATG or scenarios that AI fleets try to drive (land attack) land units, never causing any damage.

[Khanti]

When used as a mod (when starting game: 4Seasons-Weather) it says it can't locate ...Landscape\Plains\Plains-Summer-Sunny.png and when prompted "continue" others "summer" files.

There are no subfolders in graphics\FourSeasons\Landscape\

[ernieschwitz]

Did you download the four seasons graphics pack, or only the four seasons officer/scenario pack... cause that would explain it.

[Khanti]

FourSeasons-Models-All-Graphics.atzip does not contain such files.

I could do something wrong, I know.
But it's worse.
When used in random game I tried those concept models. There are there, but results from using them are not satisfying.
They cost PP for research, PP for model creations and in the end modeled units are worse than concept ones.

Example: Tankdestoyer concept

cost 4000
armor hp 7500/6000
art/soft 5250/4200
ships 5250/4200
air 4125/3300

Dragon Model 0 core research, mark 1, version 1 with 11 improvements (!!!)
cost 7000
armor hp 7200/6000
art/soft 5040/4200
ships 5040/4200
air 3960/3300

and they shoot the same !

[ernieschwitz]

Unfortunately Ormand is gone at the moment, and I am unsure when he comes back... I am sure he will have a solution for you when he gets back

[Ormand]

Just a quick check in, as I am mostly unavailable until the 8/7. Sorry, I got ahead of myself, and did something a bit stupid. A major upgrade of the Four Seasons system is coming the week of 8/7, and I uploaded the at2 files early. The plan was to get the new graphic files up, which Vic has on the server, but not linked to a scenario, but since it was too close to my departure, I decided to hold off. But I forgot that I uploaded the at2 files in anticipation (and there was no activity). I put back v1.35, rather than 2.0, back on the server. This should have no problems with the graphic files that are there. The week of the 7th I'll be back in force able to do things, and the graphics will largely be updated, and I hope better. I may have an error in the tank destroyer, so I'll check that when I get back.

[Ormand]

ORIGINAL: Khanti

It seems this mod have all stuff ATG should have after those years. I'm not very familar with it yet, so just a quick question: Do battleships / cruisers with artillery range ever use those "shore bombardment" option when commanded by AI?
I've always seen in normal ATG or scenarios that AI fleets try to drive (land attack) land units, never causing any damage.

OK, I am mostly back. A small trip this weekend, but I should have connectivity for part of it.

Unfortunately, I have never seen battleships or cruisers do shore bombardment. This was the with AT as well. The AI doesn't do ships that well. It will use them against other ships, but there should also be an "intercept" capability. It is possible to run your ships right past an enemy task force, or aircraft, and do whatever you want. And forget aircraft carriers; the AI doesn't know how to use them.

[Ormand]

ORIGINAL: Khanti

FourSeasons-Models-All-Graphics.atzip does not contain such files.

I could do something wrong, I know.
But it's worse.
When used in random game I tried those concept models. There are there, but results from using them are not satisfying.
They cost PP for research, PP for model creations and in the end modeled units are worse than concept ones.

Example: Tankdestoyer concept

cost 4000
armor hp 7500/6000
art/soft 5250/4200
ships 5250/4200
air 4125/3300

Dragon Model 0 core research, mark 1, version 1 with 11 improvements (!!!)
cost 7000
armor hp 7200/6000
art/soft 5040/4200
ships 5040/4200
air 3960/3300

and they shoot the same !

This was "modeled" after the use of models introduced by Vic in the anewdawn3 scenarios. Basically, the model is randomized about the concept with a spread +/-. Sometimes it is better than the concept, and sometimes it is worse. The differences shouldn't be "huge" but enough to give flavor. I am a bit surprised by the large disparity, I must have done something wrong there. But, some major changes are on the way. Perhaps tomorrow. A complete rework of much of the graphics, and a rework of some of the SFT's. For one, tank destroyers are now an alteration to the tank concepts. They enter only with models. At any rate, Vic should be linking the main graphics file with the scenario on the server (i.e., replacing the previous version). At which point, I'll put up the at2 files.

I am very interested in some feedback, although I understand that demand fo4r GD1938 v3 will make this somewhat overlooked.

The basic idea behind the models is that you should either use them or just the standard SFT in your game, and not mix them. The AI cannot use them, so you can also think of the extra PP as a way to balance between yourself and the AI. Thus, I have the scenario variant "models only" this makes the non model items cost 9999, so you can't use them.

[ernieschwitz]

I am very interested in some feedback, although I understand that demand fo4r GD1938 v3 will make this somewhat overlooked.

Sorry about that

The basic idea behind the models is that you should either use them or just the standard SFT in your game, and not mix them. The AI cannot use them, so you can also think of the extra PP as a way to balance between yourself and the AI. Thus, I have the scenario variant "models only" this makes the non model items cost 9999, so you can't use them.

Wouldn't it be better to set them to -1. The result would be the same, but it would be much easier, at least to me, to see what can be researched and what cannot. Also this way you could use the modify cost function in the setng for bigger or smaller maps/regimes, this way....

[Ormand]

The basic idea behind the models is that you should either use them or just the standard SFT in your game, and not mix them. The AI cannot use them, so you can also think of the extra PP as a way to balance between yourself and the AI. Thus, I have the scenario variant "models only" this makes the non model items cost 9999, so you can't use them.

Wouldn't it be better to set them to -1. The result would be the same, but it would be much easier, at least to me, to see what can be researched and what cannot. Also this way you could use the modify cost function in the setng for bigger or smaller maps/regimes, this way....
[/quote]

I hadn't thought of using -1. Doesn't matter too much as the price has to be set at the beginning of each Human player turn (otherwise the AI can't build them). But, it a "-1" is perhaps a bit more obvious in the list of items that can be built.

[Ormand]

OK, Four Seasons v 2.0.0 is live. As before, there are two parts. The main graphics files, which are on the server at

http://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=259

and the at2 files, which are at

http://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=260

The "graphics patch" is no longer needed. But, the Generals Project is, which can be found at:

http://www.vrdesigns.net/scenario.php?nr=270

This started as an attempt to balance out air/sea/land units, and evolved into a major upgrade. I updated most of the map graphics (they are similar but improved), added new terrains for scenarios, added terrain graphics for game screen, tweaked SFT's (tried to balance air/land/sea better and made the levels more uniform), and linked to the "Generals Project". The system is still set up for random games with several "variant options" during play.

Changed Graphics:

1. Low Mountains. The edges are more realistic and have been eroded. High Mountains are the same. These were mostly intended to be used next to low mountains.

2. Forested Mountains. Along with the new edges, some errors that had spillover were fixed.

3. Light Forest/Woods. These are now more sparse and more distinguishable from the forests.

4. Fields and Bocage. I tightened up the fields and scale is better.

5. Capital/Urban/Suburban: I made these flow a bit better with the interior graphics so that it filled the hex better. Capitals have a symbol to help you locate them.

6. Mountains no longer overlap urban-like hexes. So that mountain villages make sense now.

7. Improved the beach hexes so that the beach actually follows the coast. I admit that beach hexes in winter are hard to distinguish, and perhaps this can be improved.

8. Made the difference between arid and sand dunes a bit more discernible.

9. Made new graphics for fortifications.

10. Changed the railroad and road system. It is more like the alt graphics. Rails and roads are in the same hex. The rail bed is removed from the tracks.

New terrains:

1. a canal river. This is a river, but has straight edges to denote a canal. I didn't want to use the minor river for this.

2. Wadi/Arroyo. For arid scenarios.

3. Canyon. Normal and desert.

4. Fjord/Estuary. A larger river-like object that connects well to the sea. Can be used to model fjords or an estuary.

5. Sea Canal. This is a "sea" hex that looks like a canal. In ATG we have either sea or land, ships can't use rivers, etc. So, this is meant to model a canal without having to plop down a sea passage. That means land units can't enter the hex. This is fixed by using "ports" that can connect to the canal, which will allow both land and sea units to pass through, and allow bridges.

Units:

I tweaked strengths and consolidated some of the models for them to make more sense.

But, artillery is back. They have a range of two hexes, and can be used as usual. This isn't that realistic for a 15 mi/hex game, but it seemed that it was just better to do with the engine as it is.

[edit]

I forgot some stuff:

Roads:

1. Added a narrow gauge rail, so there are two types of rail that can be used, with different movements. These movement type are set by rulevars 0, 2, 99, 32. The type of rail movement used by each regime is kept track of in regimevar 24. There is a scenario variant to use random rail types, and these are set for each regime at the start of each regime's turn.

Variants for random games:

1. Start with Diplomatic Block: Game starts with diplomatic block that ends pseudo-randomly.

2. Use Models Only: Human players must use models. Standard items cannot be produced.

3. Limit AI Factories: Slows down the AI factory building as the AI builds factories.

4. No Factories: Building factories is not allowed.

5. Weather with Storms: Storms occur randomly affecting air operations.

6. Build Only Roads: Cannot build railroads, just standard roads.

7. Random Rail Type: Regime has 50-50 chance for wide gauge or narrow gauge rail. For 2 regimes, they have the opposite.

8. Five Day Turns: Standard is 14 days, this is an attempt to make shorter turns.

[Ormand]

Some images from a derivative project that is coming along:

France:

[Ormand]

Libyan desert: