JEcon 101 setup pre-final Doc

[morphin]

Damian
Can you update the dropbox links in the first post please?
That would be very helpful

Thank's
Andy

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: morphin

Damian
Can you update the dropbox links in the first post please?
That would be very helpful

Thank's
Andy

Thanks Andy - I assume you mean the 2 savefiles. I've updated the links now.

Cheers

[nashvillen]

Had to look too far down the list for this, bump.

[dasboot1960]

Thank You! (and I haven't even looked at it). I have used Kull's spreadsheet as a starting guide (Thank You!) which I found especially helpful for China, although impatience has cost me a couple VPs. Too late tonight to get into this, but thanks to all who support this magnificent game!

[jdsrae]

Bump, Damian’s econ 101 doc is what helped get me started playing as Japan

[n01487477]

Thanks for the bump jdsrae Been a while since I've been on these forums but I hope the doc I made in the past still rings true.

Cheers

[AlbertN]

Is there a simpler approach with less math involved to begin with and more basic 'how to do things and get things done'?

I've started to read the thing, kind of got lost with all the math, and I've quite basic questions that are not even answered or covered there.

First 'easy' question:
Does my economy includes conquered locations? Does it retain the same efficiency? (A Japan HI consumes and produces the same as a Korea or Manchuria located HI point, or the same as a China or Rangoon located HI)?

Second 'easy' question:
Does make sense to build (expand?) HIs and other factories that are closer to Resources and Fuel? (ie. Manchuria for instance - assuming they work at same efficiency)

A more 'mathy' question could be:
Does it make more sense to expand HI in Sapporo or in let's say Tokyo? Or to dump there LI?
(The rationale, after having read your documents, is that around Sapporo there are an amount of resources already, and HI requires small amount of fuel that requires to get there. It is more efficient a longer oil / fuel route for that amount, or to ship resources to Japan?)

Ulterior 'mathy' question could be:
Should I expand LI or HI? Or neither? Which is better?
The 'feeding' formula was explained, but it's simpler to say 'It is more efficient to build THIS ... eventually as long as THAT premise is kept' (Example: HI are more efficient, but they require fuel too. LI can still give you supplies even when late war Japan is surrounded by USA aereonaval assets').

Hook a gamer first, go in detail later with some 'advanced guide'.
Ironically enough, what you defined 'for advancer gamers' is explained in a simpler fashion than all the previous work.

Thanks nonetheless! I know more of the game, but I am still a headless chicken about production and lack clarity of first steps about what I should do here.

ADDENDA:
Trying to follow the step by step thing - but for instance I cannot bring to 40 the Veichle factories. If I expand them, it -automatically- adds a batch of the same number. So a 12 Veic.Fact set to expand will necessarily add other 12. No less, no more. And then if I click again, they'll add other 24.
Am I missing something?

[Ambassador]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

Is there a simpler approach with less math involved to begin with and more basic 'how to do things and get things done'?

I've started to read the thing, kind of got lost with all the math, and I've quite basic questions that are not even answered or covered there.

First 'easy' question:
Does my economy includes conquered locations? Does it retain the same efficiency? (A Japan HI consumes and produces the same as a Korea or Manchuria located HI point, or the same as a China or Rangoon located HI)?

Captured industry get halved, but otherwise HI is HI is HI : it’ll require the same ressources, whether it’s in Tokyo, Seoul, Batavia or Petaouchnok.

Second 'easy' question:
Does make sense to build (expand?) HIs and other factories that are closer to Resources and Fuel? (ie. Manchuria for instance - assuming they work at same efficiency)

From a logistical and industrial point of view, yes. Ressources have to be hauled, and this costs fuel, more or less depending on the efficiency of the TK/xAK (as in fuel consumed per hex travelled per given load of fuel/ressources).
From a strategic point of view, it depends. Fuel has to be brought to Japan, supplies have to be brought to the front lines, so producing that supply closer to the front limits the fuel consumption to haul both the fuel and the supply.

But ! (There’s always a « but » in this game) this will also bring the HI closer to the front line, and they’ll be vulnerable to attacks. Some HI in Java may be useful, but if the Allies come bombing it and damage or destroy it, it’s gone.

A more 'mathy' question could be:
Does it make more sense to expand HI in Sapporo or in let's say Tokyo? Or to dump there LI?
(The rationale, after having read your documents, is that around Sapporo there are an amount of resources already, and HI requires small amount of fuel that requires to get there. It is more efficient a longer oil / fuel route for that amount, or to ship resources to Japan?)

You need 2 fuel but 20 ressources to make a HI work. A 6000-capacity TK transports enough to ensure 100 days of operation for a size 30 HI plant. In contrast, a 6000-capacity xAK assigned to transport ressources only brings enough for 10 days of operation. The difference is that bringing the ressources from Hokkaido is a short hop between two bases, while the fuel has to be brought much further (I’m not a specialist of Japan, but I found I had a hard time bringing enough fuel at the tip of Honshu - forgot the name of that base - to push it to Hokkaido).

Ulterior 'mathy' question could be:
Should I expand LI or HI? Or neither? Which is better?
The 'feeding' formula was explained, but it's simpler to say 'It is more efficient to build THIS ... eventually as long as THAT premise is kept' (Example: HI are more efficient, but they require fuel too. LI can still give you supplies even when late war Japan is surrounded by USA aereonaval assets').

Think in terms of return on investment.
A LI requires only 15 ressources, but only gives 1 supply point. As you need 100 supplies to create the LI, and 1000 to « repair » it to functional state, the initial cost is 1.100 supplies - you need it to operate for 1.100 days in order to profit from the expansion, or around three years. IOW, expand an LI at game start, and you get slightly more supplies starting mid-December ‘44.
In contrast, HI requires 20 ressources and 2 fuel, but gives 2 supply points (and 2 HI points). Your investment in supply to create & repair the plant is recovered in 550 days, or one and a half year - IOW, expansion in December ‘41 gives a benefit in June ‘43.

So, as long as you have enough fuel, expanding HI is more useful.

Now, what about surplus ressources once you’re confident you’ve expanded your HI as much as you can afford given your Oil/Fuel sources ? Remember the strategic point above : location and susceptibility to enemy attacks. An LI that you’re confident won’t be damaged by the Allies before ‘45, can give you an advantage. But, unless your enemy is incompetent, Japan will be undergoing a continuous bombing campaign by then, and other parts of the empire may be under threat way earlier, so LI might only be safe in Manchukuo. And even so, as you need to bring 1.100 supplies somewhere to create that LI, very early in the game (when your fleet is under hard pressure to invade everywhere), it brings you a mere 30 supplies per month, 365 supplies for the whole of 1945.

Hook a gamer first, go in detail later with some 'advanced guide'.
Ironically enough, what you defined 'for advancer gamers' is explained in a simpler fashion than all the previous work.

Thanks nonetheless! I know more of the game, but I am still a headless chicken about production and lack clarity of first steps about what I should do here.

ADDENDA:
Trying to follow the step by step thing - but for instance I cannot bring to 40 the Veichle factories. If I expand them, it -automatically- adds a batch of the same number. So a 12 Veic.Fact set to expand will necessarily add other 12. No less, no more. And then if I click again, they'll add other 24.
Am I missing something?

Don’t expand the industry from the base/city screen, but from the general industry screen.

[AlbertN]

Thanks for the answers - I'll exploit the situation to ask more as I tinkered some more.

Captured Industry is halved. Okay.
Does let's say Canton shows already a 'halved' capacity?
Will the visual show half in general (Let's say Hong Kong has 50 shipyards, I capture it. Will I see 50 on the tooltip and I know only 25 works, or I shall directly see 25 as tooltip?)
Is this also worth for Resources and Oil?

On the Industry Screen, I am apparently unable to command expansion of factories. I can have them stop producing and eventually stop expanding, if they're expanding.

Is Production Monthly or Daily? (In terms of Supply Points, etc)

[GetAssista]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith
Thanks for the answers - I'll exploit the situation to ask more as I tinkered some more.

Judging by the questions I'd advice you to exploit the situation by reading the manual first, the industry section. Cause as much as people here are willing to help newcomers they expect you to do some due diligence first and clear the obvious stuff for yourself.

[AlbertN]

Honest answer! I was trying to get away by watching tutorials and the like - thanks nonetheless! (Tbh I gave the same answer to newbies of other games I regularly play so I feel you there!)

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: Cohen_slith

Is there a simpler approach with less math involved to begin with and more basic 'how to do things and get things done'?
[snip]

Hi Cohen - I think Ambassador has answered all your questions here. I'm sorry I didn't organise this doc as well as it should have been, it was my hot take done a long time ago. There are other guides from Kull and Numbdydar's tm.asp?m=3329605 ...
many links can be found here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

Logistics are the core of playing the IJ, there really aren't any shortcuts to knowing it, but a myriad of ways to do it.
Good luck

[porpoisehead]

Hi there Damian and gang,

I'm playing the Japanese in a PBEM GC, January 1st, 1942.

I'm pretty sure I followed all the recommendations in Damian's document, but something seems off: my ship production points pools are constantly depleted. (As seen in the attached picture.)

Is this as intended, or did I mess something up?

Thanks!

(Ahem... obviously I can see I am producing less points than are requested from my building units, but I'm just not sure if that's the intended outcome, or if I turned off too many yards!)

[RangerJoe]

You need to stop working on some ships that have started and/or stop accelerating ships.

[porpoisehead]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You need to stop working on some ships that have started and/or stop accelerating ships.

Thanks Joe... that probably should have been obvious to me, but I didn’t want to tool around and destroy anything!

Navy points was easily fixable by dropping some subs (which I read somewhere is a fair play), merchant points seem vastly harder to come by so I’ll have to revisit the document and consider a little further.

Thanks again!

[PaxMondo]

With so many new players, this needs a bump. VERY useful and the links on page one work just fine.