Once more into the Breech with D21

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: comte
Larry great AAR. I was wondering does the latest patch come with the latest version of D21?

Right off the top of my head, just guessing, I'd say not. But I've looked D21 up on the
recent submission list in Mod & Scenarios and found the link for you:

tm.asp?m=4402118&mpage=1&key=%26%2365533%3B

I love it.

[larryfulkerson]

T55: Here's the situation, starting at the top of the map. The Soviets
are pushing the Finns aside and have broken the Finn front lines almost
everywhere up north especially just north of Leningrad. I need to rail
in some people from somewhere or they will be on the road to Helsinki.

The Soviets have already pushed too far west for me to base my front
lines on Pskov....I'll have to pull back to the river that runs through
Riga. Which will mean that the troops at Smolensk will have to displace
and reposition furher to the west.

The Soviets are experts in catching up with the retreating units and using
their disentrenchment penalty to damage units. And they frequently run
my units down with their armor to make the unit vulnerable to Soviet follow
on forces.

I'm going to pull everybody back to Minsk and try to build a line there.
And down south I'm looking at using Kiev and the river that runs south
from there for a defensive line.

Sevastopol is kaput now so there's no reason for my troops to hang around
so I may as well pull them out of there into the good supply areas.

I'm going to have to stear the Axis minors to the Bessarabia area to defend
in the mountains. They might be able to stand up to the Soviets there.

[larryfulkerson]

I see I'm about to lose my flame tanks. And I was using those to light campfires too. They come in handy when you
can't find your lighter.

[larryfulkerson]

I've lost a lot of people and I need a shortened front line now so here's
what I'm thinking. A large arc along the river from Riga to Kiev and
then following the river south from there and curving at D-town toward the
west and terminating near Odessa with the Germans maning the front lines
from Riga to Kiev and the Axis minor Alies from Kiev to Odessa. Something
like that.

[larryfulkerson]

I zipped up the T56 save game file and attached it here below so that those of you who want to review the reports and
check things out closely you can. I'm retreating all over the map.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the T57 front lines before I have moved anybody.

[DanNeely]

ORIGINAL: TPOO

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

ORIGINAL: Jukipo
Führer demands: Stand or Die!
Don’t retreat too far in the center. Hold at least Velikiye Luki – Smolensk – Bryansk line.
You are on turn 52, offensive lasts only four more turns.

Hey there Jukipo dude, um.....that sounds like good advice. I'll see what I can do to hang
in there around Smolensk and Bryansk but I've already seen Velikiye Luki in my rear view
mirror. I'm planning on pulling back to the railhead whereever it is and then look for
some good defensive positions to start building another front line with what is left of the
troops. Good thing this doesn't last very long.

ORIGINAL: karonagames
I have been playing with the save you posted earlier. And although the supply situation is dire.
I have only had to deal with one or two breakthroughs. It looks like you continued attacking in
the turns after the save you posted while I built defensive positions in the turns before the
Winter offensive started.
Yes, I continued attacking and got some good kills at low cost but it did sap the units of their
badly needed supply so when the supply lines collapsed and the Soviet shock went up to 120 and
mine dropped to 90, well that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was fighting too
far forward and didn't prepare very well for the Winter Offensive at all. And it shows.

I do think that the way D21 handles railroad conversion is strange, I am barely seeing 2-3 hexes
per turn being converted which means that getting supply to the front lines is a major problem.
I don't know if the chance of conversion increases in clear weather, but atm in poor weather the
rate of conversion is very low.

I agree with you and have brought it up with the scenario designers and the word is that the
very low supply and low rail repair are supposed to replicate the true situation as it really
was and demonstrate the Axis weak link, their unpreparedness for the first year winter period.
I would really love it if Steve or Ricki would chime in and explain the supply reasoning again.

Down below I have attached the T53 save game so you guys can get a really detailed look at what
is going on and even check out the Soviet side.

The supply design is basically to force the Axis player to attempt to advance to capture the historical territory of 1941, basically to capture the the productions centers that the Axis captured in 1941 before being forced to retreat. This will reduce Soviet production if accomplished. Not accomplishing this will give the Soviets a significant production advantage over what was historical. If the Axis player captures more production locations in 1941 than historical they will have a significant advantage in winning the war. Obviously if one choose not to advance to a historical front and stopped an say Smolensk and dug in they would not be that affected by the Russian Winter offensive but the Soviets would have increased production which the Axis cannot afford to let them have. If you advance to the historical front and you have not done a good job of advancing the rail lines you could be in for a brutal Soviet offensive. I know it seems like the rail completion is difficult but if you do it right you should be able to have a completed rail line to near Leningrad, Vyazma, Orel, Kharkov and the Crimea but the end of November 1941. These are the main cities you should be focusing rail production to. You get some supply help with the temporary forward supply depots but do not rely on these as they are removed by winter 1941. Because of the TOAW IV overextended supply rules now it is essential that one concentrate on rail construction and the best path to where you are going to advance to. This is still the basic supply system that was used in FITE I and is currently used in FITE 2.

Also, there is less rail repair available during Winter 1941 but will return in 1942 and by then you should be able to rail repair by late Spring 1942 to all areas of the Front.
If you have any questions please feel free to ask and I will do my best to explain are rationale.

I'm wondering if part of Larry's problem with the rail lines not being up to the front was being a victim of his own success in the far north. The Finns advancing to the white sea and then a good chunk of the way north toward Murmansk was probably 20-30 hexes of ahistoric rail repair soaked up by a tertiary front. That would've been enough to get the southern railhead close to the front lines like the central and northern ones were.

[larryfulkerson]

Origonal DanNeely
I'm wondering if part of Larry's problem with the rail lines not being up to
the front was being a victim of his own success in the far north. The Finns
advancing to the white sea and then a good chunk of the way north toward
Murmansk was probably 20-30 hexes of ahistoric rail repair soaked up by a
tertiary front. That would've been enough to get the southern railhead
close to the front lines like the central and northern ones were.

Yeah, but there's no way to get the RR engrs from Finland to Talinin except via
sea and I haven't tried that yet. That's a good idea. May be too late to try
it now however.

I'm not sure what went wrong exactly but I'm thinking that there were multiple
factors. I wasn't prepared for the shock increase that the Soviets got along
with the collapse of the supply lines combined to happen at once just overwhelmed
my guys and the slaughter began. I couldn't pull people back fast enough to keep
them out of the jaws of the advancing Soviet units. Lots of tanks and recon units
are being used to cut off my retreat routes. I'm having to detour in places.

The troops are pulled back into good supply areas and I'll have the advantage of
"interior rails" or will have before too long. The Soviets will be struggling
with their supply levels ( that's the theory ) and they will be tired from moving
all the way they have and I'm hoping the Winter Offensive will terminate soon.

[larryfulkerson]

This is what Smolensk looks like right now. I'm starting to form a first draft of
a front line and it's still rough. The rivers are frozen over so the river is just
symbolic and don't prevent movement or anything else. I just found out that the
Soviet Winter Offensive will last 10 turns and I don't remember when it started.

[larryfulkerson]

My new front line is starting to take shape in the north. I'm not entirely comfortable with it yet but it's a start.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what it looks like around Orsha right now. The Soviets are coming on pretty
fast and will be at my front lines probably next turn. There's already a meeting
engagement between some of the lessor units.

I need to do an inventory of the air fleet to make sure they are in the proper positions
and that there's no gaps in the coverage etc.

I believe that the rivers are frozen over and aren't a hindrence any longer. D'oh. That
makes defending even that much harder. And we're just about to get a test of the front
lines shortly. I've gone through the units and they are the freshest of them and might
therefore have a better chance of staying put.

[larryfulkerson]

I've got some Rumanians blockng the Soviets near Sevastopol where the isthmus joins
the Crimea at Feodosia on the southern coast. I've brought in some light naval units
for all the good they might do and I've flown in some dedicated CS Stukas and shortened
their range so they concentrate on Feodosia only and I gave them a three-dot setting
to keep them busy. They are still green they could use a workout, a light workout.

I'm prepared to sacrifice the Sumanian units in the blocking group just to delay the
passage of the Soviets through that rail/road avenue.

[larryfulkerson]

Just as an experiment I flew this FJ paratrooper unit, the only one not withdrawn
already, from Sevastopol to Kraunas just south of the northern front lines, about
151 hexes in a straight line, and they arrived there with a 75mm field gun, an
AT gun, and a motorcycle of all things. They flew that stuff on a plane. Not to
mention 20+ machine guns and AT rifles and mortars. There had to be more than one
plane to move all this stuff. I'm guessing a small fleet of them.

I've still got the Brandenburgers ( paratroopers ) but I've been letting them rest.
I'd like for their supply to be 150 and their readiness extra high for their next
missions. I'm wondering if I should use them to break bridges in the rear. They
have a house rule limit of 10 hexes from one of my LCU's and that's not nearly
enough to get the, close to a splendid bridge to drop. Speaking strategically and
or tactically, the loss to the Soviets wouldn't pay the cost of the event. However,
next spring with I have everything under control again I can see using the paratroopers
to complete a surrouond on a small group of Soviet units, things like that.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's the T58 front lines before I have moved anybody.

[700851McCall]

You've had to pull a long way back from Leningrad! What happened there?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: 700851McCall
You've had to pull a long way back from Leningrad! What happened there?

Originally I pulled back to Pskov and started to form a line there but the Soviets
advanced further to the west than Pskov at a place further south so the Pskov
defenders had to displace to Riga where they are forming another front line. The
supply levels are a lot better than out in the fringes and the units are getting
their moxie back but this is another Soviet Winter Offensive turn so the Soviets
still have a shock of 120 while mine is 100. I'd like to avoid them for a while yet.

The front lines are a bit skimpy in the middle on the east side of the marshes. I've
been moving people that way they just haven't arrived yet. I might be able to make
this work.

[larryfulkerson]

A Soviet infantry unit was just about to capture D-town so I drove an LCU into the
hex to preserve it and the intelligence improved on the Soviet unit so I could tell
it's health and strength and so on. I don't think it's really a platoon, I think it's
a division and I'm thinking I can hold onto the hex for at least a turn. Maybe two.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what it looks like down south right now. I'm holding them off so far.

[larryfulkerson]

Here's what it looks like near the Kerch Straits area. Near Feodosia, if that helps.
I'm doing okay for supply and the Soviets haven't attacked in this area yet so I'm
hopeful that I can hold back the hordes for a while here. I've got a bomber that's
dedicated to the local CS missions and the Soviets took shot or two at my DD unit
but the Me-109's drove them away with light losses. Now the DD's are bait.

[TPOO]

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Just as an experiment I flew this FJ paratrooper unit, the only one not withdrawn
already, from Sevastopol to Kraunas just south of the northern front lines, about
151 hexes in a straight line, and they arrived there with a 75mm field gun, an
AT gun, and a motorcycle of all things. They flew that stuff on a plane. Not to
mention 20+ machine guns and AT rifles and mortars. There had to be more than one
plane to move all this stuff. I'm guessing a small fleet of them.

I've still got the Brandenburgers ( paratroopers ) but I've been letting them rest.
I'd like for their supply to be 150 and their readiness extra high for their next
missions. I'm wondering if I should use them to break bridges in the rear. They
have a house rule limit of 10 hexes from one of my LCU's and that's not nearly
enough to get the, close to a splendid bridge to drop. Speaking strategically and
or tactically, the loss to the Soviets wouldn't pay the cost of the event. However,
next spring with I have everything under control again I can see using the paratroopers
to complete a surrouond on a small group of Soviet units, things like that.

The 7th Flieger Division has that type of equipment in it because after Crete the Fueherer converted the paratrooper division to a ground division.
Also I should remark since you are in 1942 now is to make sure the Mud and Snow Rules are turned off. They do not work properly with the Spring thaw. Steve is checking to see if this is a known issue as he has also experienced it on another scenario. Fortunately if they were turned on and now turned off will not affect game play in a current scenario.