2by3+

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

ORIGINAL: Kratsch
I know I will get sent to the gulags, but I have strong reservations about the kamikaze attack order....We do not have the strength (yet) for that, and the disruption to our forces will make their attacks so much easier... In winter - yes; in 42 onwards -


If everyone feels the same, than so be it. But keep in mind that the Gulag is just a corner away Marshall Kratsch.... [:-]
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thedoctorking
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by thedoctorking »

I think you should hold a spot for me in the Gulag. I very much regret to say that I think we are now officially screwed. There wasn't anything I could do about the pocket up by Ilmen. I have a thin screen of brigades between his troops and the Lake Ladoga ports. After he takes them, he'll have Leningrad for the effort of launching a few attacks. And I have nothing to stop him in the north-center either.

Maybe we should re-start and call this a learning experience?
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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

We can still win this, just retreat from Leningrad if must be. but put out a fight. I dont think they are going to push much further after Leningrad. either way, we have lots of reinforcement coming our way but we need to stop loosing troops to pockets. 41 is never going to be good for the Soviets. We need to wait for Winter to arrive.
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Kratsch
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Kratsch »

Gents,

we are in dire straits here. If we want to have a chance, we need to get the absolute maximum out of everything we have.

I am just working on my file, and I cannot help but offering a few suggestions:

1. we need to shuffle air units with morale of less than 40 to the national reserve as the first thing each move - best for the Sup Com.

2. The same holds true for any air unit with a fatigue > 20.

Both will massively benefit us. In reverse, once units have their morale up, send back out.

3. Air needs to be placed cleverly. We have airbases packed full of short-range fighters sitting in the middle of nowhere 20 hexes behind the front... If no one wants them, please send them south instead of wasting them there where they will do nothing.

4. Please consider ship-transporting good value divisions out of the Leningrad pocket via Lake Ladoga; we those forces there bitterly! Several divisions could leave there this turn! Next turn, those Lake ports on the east short might be German, then everything in Leningrad will wither fast and for no gain....

5. Holding the second line with HQs is pointless. Once the front unit gets displaced and a German moves adjacent, the HQ gets displaced, losing stuff in the process. This is just asking to happen.

6. I left a list of suggestions for the middle sector already in a previous post. Please address as it will significantly strengthen the line for next to no effort!

7. Do not have units attached to STAVKA on the frontline! They get a hefty reduction in their CV for being attached to STAVKA. Attach them to your local front/front-armies, please!

8. Moscow air command is packed with air units doing there absolutely nothing! We need those 1800+ airframes at the front.

9. Large parts of my front have no fighter aircraft. I have spotted several unescorted supply runs by German Ju-52s to their spearhead. Those should get badly punished, but at present they are unharmed, leading to more MPs for their tanks, and hence higher losses for us.

10. Could I please request the exchange of several of my front commanders, particularly the 3/6 one for a 5/6; there are at least 2 to choose from.

The south is done.

I have not done any factory evacuation, as some of the above may result in some use of our train capacity.

Can I please leave all of the above to the implement/consider (pretty please), and also the evacuation, to our Supreme Leader before the file gets sent back to the Germans.
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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

The files were sent back to the German already. Those are things you need to discuss with us before doing the last turn. As we take a long time to do those files, I make it a priority to send them as as soon as they are ready.
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Kratsch
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Kratsch »

What? I don't get the sequence then. I thought the Sup Commander goes last?

And I DID post this in fact before uploading the file... And the other comments regarding the centre were made on the 19th, so 4 days before my file...

On the German team there are some of the most experienced sharks in the game, and we hurry to save 12 hrs and spend our time role-playing?!

There will be no 42 at this rate, which is a shame.

After the next German file which I think will see Leningrad isolated with the supply ports taken, the northern pocket destroyed, and either the entire centre cut off, or Germans east of Moscow we should seriously consider restarting this, as there will be little point continuing.

ledo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by ledo »

Yeah that's unfortunate, because factory evac hasn't been done either yet. I also was pretty unsure about my defensive set up, I dragged as many troops to defend as possible, but I felt a little uncertain about whether I weaken my centre line or keep as is. I was kind of hoping for some advice, and maybe to make a few more movements based on that advice when I did the factory evacs. I mean with the amount of units we have (and the fact that so much of our troops were basically lined up parallel with the Pripyat marshes when I took over) Moscow looks really bad, and I'm just racing to get troops back. Sparkley's shift from south to North of Moscow really caught me off guard as well (which is probably my inexperience showing). Anyway, without the factory evacs planned for this turn, losing Moscow is really really going to hurt long term.
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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

(*edit : The axis will be done with their turn tomorrow. )

The factory evacuation need to be done during the turns. When I get handed over the turns from everyone, I expect everything to be done. Dont send in your files, if you haven't finished your turns.
Sup com is last, but all I do in the last turn is tinkle with the air force, and make sure all reinforcements were sent. Thats all thats being done when I receive the last file.

Ledo was made responsible for the factory evacuation, and each Marshall needs to tell him what factory they want evacuated. This is how we said it would be done. Now, if its not done, and no one tells me about it, I cant know.
I received notification for each turn done. When I get these notifications, I go directly in the game and do the last turn because I expect everything was done like it was supposed to be.

EDIT : Yes Iv just read about the evac not being done on the 19th. So thats my bad, but as of now, do the evac turn when you do your turn. Because, from the 19th January to the 23rh January, I have time to forget about these details. If a Marshall has not done everything on his turn, then dont send the file in the dropbox.

We hurry to save 12 hours yes, because our turns takes about a week or two to be done, while the Axis turn is done in about 1-3 days. (At this rate, we will be done playing the game in 5 years or so. So its still important to do the turns as quick as we can.) And this isn't one or two weeks of preparation and strategy talk on our side, its simply 1 or 2 weeks of waiting in silence for someone to do his turn. The Axis players are not veterans of the game either, they mention they had little experience before starting the game. I think two of them are completely new.


And Kratsch, while I understand your frustration with the present game, especially since when you and Ledo came in the game, we had just started being fucked hard ( wich is a reason why the previous Marshall left ). But the game is not going to be restarted. I made a promise to the other team I would fight to the bitter end, and this is what Il do. It would suck if we were to abandon each game simply because its not going our way, also would not give a good reputation to the community next time we want to do another game and people wont want to play with us. You are welcome to do as you please, but please, stop telling us to abandon the game. Whats the point of playing the game if we cant hold it up together during the hard times. Its only 1941, we still got 5 years of war to go on and defeat the Germans. Its completely normal to be beaten in 1941 for the Soviet.

Its normal that we make some mistake here and there, after all, we just changed our whole team. We will get the hang of working together as the turn goes. Next turn guys, just do everything on your turn, and dont send the file as long as its not done.

The point of continuing the game is to take experience. Experience in defeat or in victory is still experience. In 1941, the Soviets didn't abandon, they fought, they died, they shared sweat and blood together and they kept defending the USSR. Yes, we have seen a lot of defeats, more than normal.We have seen our brothers and sisters being encircled and eliminated in gigantic pockets. We have lost a lot of our air forces, we have lost a lot of our divisions, but the fight is not over, as long as there is one army left to fight with, In memories of all the Soviet soldier who died at the hand of the Germans, we will continue defending the Motherland. We shall kill them in the fields, We shall take back our cities, We shall send bomb dog under their tanks, We shall dig deeper and deeper into the Soviet Union, We shall take back what is ours, and we will take back every single inch of land that the German rat has taken from us. Together, we will fight, Together we will go to Berlin, Together, we shall never surrender !

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Kratsch
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Kratsch »

Seriously? For roleplaying purposes, we did not even do the factory evacuation? Shall we maybe just disband a whole front or two next turn for some roleplaying punishment as well? The difference is not that much... Only that troops come back, factories don't...

Factory evac has to be the last thing done in each turn. How can you judge a priority if you don't know the final board position! It makes no sense for each section to do their bit, how are they to know how much rail capacity to use? It has to be a final central thing, everything just does not work.
I am writing all the mail to give some suggestions or advice. But if they are not read, or possibly implemented, what is the point?

If the point of the game is to see how much self-harm is needed to make it quick, I guess we are on the right road....

There will be no long war, this game is over at present rate in the next 10 turns or so. There is little point dragging something out which is a foregone conclusion. It cannot be fun for anyone (including the Germans) to play a game for several years (and that is what we are talking about after all at the overall pace!!) when everyone knows how it will end up, and the dragging out is done just to make a point. And certainly, no real interesting AAR will result from a game without any form of tension either.

No one might like this, but this game sadly is usually decided in 41. If the Germans are way behind, they will not last, so might as well restart, and book it as a learning experience. The same goes for the Russian. We are so badly behind already, and the factory evac is just there to top it off.... Let's see where we are in 2-3 turns, but if it is simply hopeless, and we roleplay for the sake of it, then I would strongly suggest to restart and redo 10 turns, instead of having 245 turns of a waste of time ahead.
Heck, in 42 or 43 we could forget to do an entire turn or two, and it would matter little overall. Here, screwing up part of a turn in 42 is catastrophic as the longterm impact is just so much. WE may not like this, but that is the way the game is built.

Only if there is a position in the middle ground at the end of 41, an interesting game can evolve. That is one of the reasons why I don't like the '41 scenario that much.

I do not like giving up games either, but idealism and dogmatism sometimes needs to give way to some realism.

Oh, and telemecus, and I believe Stelteck is on the German team as well, are both very experienced players who know the game well...

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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

ORIGINAL: Kratsch

Seriously? For roleplaying purposes, we did not even do the factory evacuation?

I dont know what you are talking about, no one is role playing. We didnt do the factory evac because I forgot we still had to do the factory evac and the Germans had already played their turn by the time I sent the file. Not because of role playing. Sadly, I have no idea what you are talking about when you talk about role playing.

I already mention that Factory Evac was top priority, so that means Ledo can use as much rail points as he wants, since I use every Rail points in the beginning of the turn to bring reinforcement in. We dont need rail point for nothing else but reinforcement and factory evac ( as far as I know )

Now in order to do the Factory evacuation, Ledo ask you guys to mention wich one needed to be evacuated and I believe he was never answered. So that needs to be addressed as well. Its the responsibility of each front commander to check out wich factory needs to be evacuated, and transmit the information to Ledo.

Then, for future reference, Ledo will be able to use whatever rail points he need to do so. Factory evacuation is top priority.

Anyway, we are not going to restart the game simply because we are losing it. Losing is part of playing a game.
If you dont want to play the game, thats fine. But please stop telling us to abandon the game every turn. The situation is bad, we all know this.
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Kratsch
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Kratsch »

Well, you said that factory evac is the job of the front commanders. So if you saw that in your final check, and elected not to do it, then this can really only be for role-playing purposes as there is no rationale reason not to evac?!

Do we play with the auto-loose agreement of Moscow, Leningrad, Rostov and Voronezh lost in 41 = auto-loose? This seems to be a common house-rule.
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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

ORIGINAL: Kratsch

Well, you said that factory evac is the job of the front commanders. So if you saw that in your final check, and elected not to do it, then this can really only be for role-playing purposes as there is no rationale reason not to evac?!

Do we play with the auto-loose agreement of Moscow, Leningrad, Rostov and Voronezh lost in 41 = auto-loose? This seems to be a common house-rule.


Iv edited my comment quite a bit, you might want to look at the previous message again.
The game is set on bitter end.


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Kratsch
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Kratsch »

I know about the bitter end setting, so that house-rule is not in effect then I take it? It was developed for a reason though...
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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

The axis turn is done...

Huge pocket in the Center.
Huge pocket in the South.

+- 200 fighter aircraft were sent in the South
8 Infantry Division reinforcement went to the Southern Front, at Voronezh
3 Infantry Division went North.
the rest went to Moscow.
- As for the transfer of commander in the South, take what whoever you need to do the job.


-The mud season has started in the South.
- Will probably start thinking about retreating to the Gorky-Yaroslav-Cherepovets line with both Northern and Central Front and maybe have the Southern front take the Rostov-Stalingad defensive line. So prepare for that in the next turn or so.

Turn is up, its Central Commander's turn.
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ledo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by ledo »

Yeah I'm sorry about all the mess. I had so much work this week, so I got through my turn as quickly as I could because I was holding up the team, my apologies. I was hoping someone might point out the problems with my line (of which i was absolutely sure there were many, but dont have the experience the Soviets to know exactly where). But obviously that created a whole bunch of confusion. Anyway I'm fine with playing on, and I got a long weekend now, so I'll finish my turn today. I'll salvage what I can from the Central front in terms of factories. I'm sorry for the situation but it was going to be difficult to avoid a pocket without abandoning Moscow (at least with my skill level) considering, where it counted, my front was probably outnumbered by the Germans (I probably should have railed those units from the South, in hindsight).
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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

Dont worry about it Ledo ! We are all pretty much new here so its normal that we make mistakes ;)

for instance, I forgot to put the save file in the dropbox a few hours ago haha.
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Kratsch
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Kratsch »

Can I suggest that the factory evac is done either as part of the final Sup Commander play, or I will do it at the end of my play. Only then the final position is known, and we know how many rail points are left.

If moving units around, it is often better over longer distances to do so with rail, as opposed to move them by foot to their maximum. The latter fatigues them badly, which means they don't fight/dig that well.

In the centre you should be able to poke a hole through the ring in the middle. That will give the pocket at least one more turn of supply to live.

In the south, the pockets don't look tight, so I am pretty sure I can break in/out, and may even be able to return the favour and cut their spearheads off for a turn or two, which will slow them down.

Otherwise, I think I will shut up, and not spend lots of time looking at the rest of the map, as it appears that no one is reading those posts anyway; plus it may make the team dynamics better.
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Neogodhobo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Neogodhobo »

Yes for the factory evac. But ask Ledo first if he wants to give you the responsibility because it his job for now. I dont personally mind whoever does the factory evac.
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ledo
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by ledo »

Hi everyone,

My turn is done and the file is in the dropbox. I've managed to open the pocket and was just short of opening it in two places and isolating two motorized divisions, bit disappointing i couldn't pull it off. Still, three divisions of his pincer are in a slightly poor supply situation and his ammo should be depleted. I've done some reorganization to get rid of overloading and a few factory evacs. 3 ARM from N. Moscow as well as an IL-10 and a Yak 7a from Moscow. Not sure whether to do the BM rocket launchers? I've saved some railcap in case anyone has anything under threat. Can we make sure to evac as much HI and ARM from Moscow with what ever remaining railcap we have?

Let me know if you have any other advice and feel free to make any minor adjustments to my front if you think I've made a big mistake.

Thanks,

Ledo
Kratsch
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RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

Post by Kratsch »

We still have 1800+ airframes in the Moscow Air command, far far behind in the frontline doing absolutely nothing at that range. That is roughly double of what I have in the entire south. As it seems that people don't want those planes, can you please send them south at least to do something??

There is also one dvision shell still sitting behind the Uralus mountians.

Units set to 'refit' don't dig basically, so units at the front should not have that setting. Instead, units not adj to enemies (cav and arm) should be set to 'reserve', as they then can participate if other units of the same command get attacked.
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