The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[JohnDillworth]

Today's sea battle was one step towards taking control of the sea lanes around Fusan, preventing John from bombardment my army

I'm not following. From here it looks like you lost the sea battle and John controls the waters around Fusan. How is this preventing John from bombarding you, evacuate troops from Fusan, engaging you in another see battle or all of the above? He won the battle, controls the field and you are not really in a psoition to contest that unless you send more ships in.

[MakeeLearn]

"Battle of Cold Harbor, (May 31–June 12, 1864), disastrous defeat for the Union Army during the American Civil War (1861–65) that caused some 18,000 casualties. Continuing his relentless drive toward the Confederate capital of Richmond, Virginia, General Ulysses S. Grant ordered a frontal infantry assault on General Robert E. Lee’s Confederate troops, who were now entrenched at Cold Harbor, some 10 miles (16 km) northeast of Richmond. The result was Lee’s last major victory of the war and a bloodbath for the Union army"

The Battle of Cold Harbor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy6dw4fcZYk

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Huh?

I'am watching a documentary on Cold Harbor (Civil War Battle)



"Canoerebel sends this dessert to you... Baked Alaska"

Oh, I thought you meant Cold Harbor in the Aleutians. Context, man, context.

AHH, I forgot that one.

[Canoerebel]

4/30/45

Asia: A very good day for the Allies on the ground and in the air. Even the deflating (and costly, from a VP standpoint) sea battle advanced the possibility of taking control of Fusan by sea, land and air. Japan is really in bad shape...and yet there's John's annoying habit of striking and scoring points, preventing me from closing the deal. I'm about to look at the Intel Screen/Score to see how today balanced overall. The sea battle hurt, but possibly the Allies made a little progress.

I know this: Yesterday's air battle had no silver lining (well, except John did lose 130 fighters, which I shouldn't dismiss). Today's sea battle did, I think.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
I'm not following. From here it looks like you lost the sea battle and John controls the waters around Fusan. How is this preventing John from bombarding you, evacuate troops from Fusan, engaging you in another see battle or all of the above? He won the battle, controls the field and you are not really in a psoition to contest that unless you send more ships in.

I have the advantage of looking at the map and seeing what's close by.

John's TFs were victorious but beat up. In two days, he lost 9 DDs. His two BBs are at least somewhat battered. His CA TF is in pretty good shape and is dangerous. I don't know what else he has out there. I suspect not much.

I have five good TFs at Moppo that re replenished and ready to go. They include two Commonwealth CLs and CA Baltimore. I have Death Star and it's strong combat TFs two hexes west. And I have about eight good TFs at Gunzan (and more at Shanghai). So sort of like the Union Army in 1864, I can feed big, fresh units into the front lines. John still holds that line at the moment, but I don't think he has the depth to maintain that control.

And what happens in three days when the Allied army arrives at Fusan? I think he's going to lose the base within ten days and then air cover becomes problematic for him.

If John has lots of strong combat ships in reserve, I may be wrong. I think I'm right. Let's see what the sea lanes look like in a week.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
We are dying to know if Halsey survived the sinking of his flagship....

Yes, Halsey survived. He's aboard CA Baltimore at Moppo. Should I continue to use him? He didn't run rings around the Japanese TF but he fought hard and did pretty well.

Personally, Arliegh Burke is my favorite surface combat TF commander. I'd give him a shot at the next round.

[Canoerebel]

4/30/45

Intel Screen: Today's defeat in the Naval Battle of Fusan slowed the march to victory. If I'm right, though, it diminished what John has left to fight with in this area while the Allies have a lot of fresh and strong TFs to commit. The question is when to commit them. I'm leery of the big airfields and kamikazes, yet I need to protect my army that is about to besiege Fusan. A complex and challenging situation.

I could have sat back and not pushed here - relying on the ground war in China and the air war to achieve 2:1. But two or three days ago, when all of this was being set into motion, I wasn't sure (not nearly as sure as I am after today's air battles) that the Allies could take on the Japanese air force over Osaka and points north. So I elected to continue pushing forward - at Singapore, towards Fusan, etc. That choice is definitely open to criticism. But it's more fun not letting the foot off the gas pedal. And, who knows, maybe I'll need Fusan and/or Singers to achieve AV.

[Drakanel]

Frankly, I don't see who would criticize you over that.
One, it makes sense to do it. You have the strength to do it, to fight on all those fronts.
Two, it's better to have multiple approach vectors instead of just one. Having multiple plans means that even if something does not go well in one of them, you still have the others to bring home more points.
And most importantly three, it's a game and it's fun to do it. Especially now that the game is more or less decided. So why not try to have some more fun [8D]

[Canoerebel]

Thanks. Those are encouraging words.

Neither John or I did things that might be natural under these circumstances - late in a game with one side powerful and the other side battered and reeling but able to strike. I'm not coasting to victory - I'm giving this everything I have and I'm still playing as though the game can continue indefinitely. I'm working supply lines in the Pacific and gathering troops at Ceram to invade Java and prepping troops in Korea to invade Japan. I want to win as soon as I can but I know that there are no guarantees. From John's standpoint, he's never given in or thrown up his hands. He's looking for ways to fight and parry and delay the inevitable.

As I mentioned yesterday, I do wish I could see the invasion of Java and Japan and do all the other things that are in the works. But at some point within the next couple of weeks (I think), the game is going to suddenly and abruptly end. That's going to be a shock. I bet I'll have more regrets than pleasure!

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
We are dying to know if Halsey survived the sinking of his flagship....

Yes, Halsey survived. He's aboard CA Baltimore at Moppo. Should I continue to use him? He didn't run rings around the Japanese TF but he fought hard and did pretty well.

Halsey's strength and weakness is his high aggressiveness. IIRC, his Air skill is higher than his Naval skill and the battle of Fusan called for more naval skill. I think his aggressiveness may have played a part in getting Alaska torpedoed. You had enough DDs to screen her if she hung back and let the DDs tangle. But your DDs suffered little damage, meaning Halsey in Alaska was out front leading the charge. At least that is the way I interpret it.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks. Those are encouraging words.

Neither John or I did things that might be natural under these circumstances - late in a game with one side powerful and the other side battered and reeling but able to strike. I'm not coasting to victory - I'm giving this everything I have and I'm still playing as though the game can continue indefinitely. I'm working supply lines in the Pacific and gathering troops at Ceram to invade Java and prepping troops in Korea to invade Japan. I want to win as soon as I can but I know that there are no guarantees. From John's standpoint, he's never given in or thrown up his hands. He's looking for ways to fight and parry and delay the inevitable.

As I mentioned yesterday, I do wish I could see the invasion of Java and Japan and do all the other things that are in the works. But at some point within the next couple of weeks (I think), the game is going to suddenly and abruptly end. That's going to be a shock. I bet I'll have more regrets than pleasure!

Now there's a question - if you do invade Japan and capture a city with industry, do you get strategic points for 'destroyed' industry, even if it is captured rather than destroyed? If so, you could reap a huge amount of points very quickly that way.

[Canoerebel]

I'm pouring over the map now. I think my understanding of the naval situation is accurate. The Allies have lots of fresh TFs at Moppo (including strong one that I didn't mention above - it's flagged by CA London, CL Houston and CLAA Atlanta that just missed making Fusan). A bunch of these TFs are going to patrol Fusan tonight. I'll be a bit surprised if John posts his CAs there again but he may. A four-DD TF will bombard Fusan. While those ships are raiding Fusan, three or four good combat TFs will move from Gunzan to Moppo. And I think DS will move forward to the hex east of Moppo (and it has all the big, fast BBs like Iowa, New Jersey, Wisconsin, etc.)

Despite today's sea battle, I'm more worried about kamikazes than John's combat TFs. Moppo has a big airfield. I'm moving more fighters and base forces forward from Shanghai and Ningpo.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks. Those are encouraging words.

Neither John or I did things that might be natural under these circumstances - late in a game with one side powerful and the other side battered and reeling but able to strike. I'm not coasting to victory - I'm giving this everything I have and I'm still playing as though the game can continue indefinitely. I'm working supply lines in the Pacific and gathering troops at Ceram to invade Java and prepping troops in Korea to invade Japan. I want to win as soon as I can but I know that there are no guarantees. From John's standpoint, he's never given in or thrown up his hands. He's looking for ways to fight and parry and delay the inevitable.

As I mentioned yesterday, I do wish I could see the invasion of Java and Japan and do all the other things that are in the works. But at some point within the next couple of weeks (I think), the game is going to suddenly and abruptly end. That's going to be a shock. I bet I'll have more regrets than pleasure!

Now there's a question - if you do invade Japan and capture a city with industry, do you get strategic points for 'destroyed' industry, even if it is captured rather than destroyed? If so, you could reap a huge amount of points very quickly that way.

I don't know the answer to that, but I suspect you do not get credit for industry but only for the actual points value of the base. I'd love to invade Japan but hope the game doesn't last long enough to require or allow it. Does that make sense?

[JohnDillworth]

[/quote]

They include two Commonwealth CLs and CA Baltimore.

Why send the boys where are the men (BB's)? It's not like you need them to watch the CV's

[Canoerebel]

These are tight and dangerous waters. Sea power is just part of the equation. Mines, subs, enemy airfields, strike aircraft and kamikazes enter into the equation. Until I know more about what I'm facing, I don't want to risk key ships in highly uncertain and potentially volatile waters. So I sent in smaller but still powerful TFs to get a feel for things. Besides, BBs aren't necessarily the best thing to employ against enemy CAs. Now that Kirishima and Kongo are damaged, they'll have to retire or enter the next battle at a bit of a disadvantage. John may have more BBs in reserve but not many. So if I continue to attrition his big boys with my small boys, what happens in three or four or six days when the seas are more clear and the fast BBs come forward? John has little left to fight with and those BBs are able to move forward to bombard.

I'm confident what I'm doing will work out in the long run. The only question I had was whether aiming for the long run made sense with the game this close to the end.

[MakeeLearn]

USS Alaska (CB 1)

A sleek looking ship, even for it's size

[BBfanboy]

Apparently the CBs were very good AA vessels (less crowded AA armament and directors than the Baltimores) and were very maneuverable. They could stick with their CVs through the evasive maneuvers during an air attack (usually posted ahead or astern the CVs).

[dave sindel]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
We are dying to know if Halsey survived the sinking of his flagship....

Yes, Halsey survived. He's aboard CA Baltimore at Moppo. Should I continue to use him? He didn't run rings around the Japanese TF but he fought hard and did pretty well.

Personally, Arliegh Burke is my favorite surface combat TF commander. I'd give him a shot at the next round.

+1 to Arleigh Burke, with a nod to "Ching" Lee as well

[Canoerebel]

April 1945

The final days of April were tough for the Allies, with high air losses one day and a tough naval battle the next. But April was the best month of the war for the Allies, by far.

In April, the Allied lead increased by almost exactly 14,000 points, about twice the second best month. This came about because the Allies had finally closed with the enemy and the Home Islands and had the supply, troops, ships and aircraft to hit consistently. Army Loss Points, Base Points, and Strategic Points were the most efficient direct means of scoring points. The Air War was the least efficient but played an enormous role in making everything else possible - pounding enemy troops and bases and hitting industrial targets. By the final ten days of April, it was becoming increasingly clear that Japanese fighters could no longer contest most of the Home Islands. John is still able to pick and chose points to defend and to organize bushwhacks (that are especially effective if weather grounds Allied fighters).

As of May 1, every IJN city south of Osaka has been reduced mostly to ashes. Very few points remain to be harvested. The Allies have to switch to more heavily defended targets, like Osaka. The 4/30 sweeps there were promising.

The Japanese army has collapsed in China and Korea, where the Allies should be able to efficiently destroy enemy units and gain some points for key bases.

The real wildcard is the sea war around Fusan. John won Round 1 today. What happens over the next two or three days is key. Each day John prevails tacks another day (or more) onto the war. But if the Allies take control of Fusan, a Japanese army will be eliminated and Allied control of the sea lanes and even the skies over the Home Islands will be considerably enhanced (because Fusan's airfield can be loaded up without risk of enemy bombardment).

[MakeeLearn]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Apparently the CBs were very good AA vessels (less crowded AA armament and directors than the Baltimores) and were very maneuverable. They could stick with their CVs through the evasive maneuvers during an air attack (usually posted ahead or astern the CVs).

One of only 2 produced of a planned 6 of the Alaska class of large cruisers. Seems that it's niche was carrier escort.