Testing UPDATE5 - 1.0.88 - ALPHA

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: UP844

Thanks Peter, your statement explains why the AI sometimes stops in its tracks!

I will try to provide a saved game showing AI units not firing when they should have do so.

Would it be feasible to add an autosave feature, just for such debugging purposes? It could also come handy for those rare instances when the game freezes.

Adding auto save is a good idea, let me look into it

[UP844]

This is the first case I managed to save: the ZIP file contains three saved games.

In alpha_test-1 there is a German 1st line squad in 8,30: it does not fire in the Advancing Fire segment at the American stack in 8,30 (even though it is within its normal range). It is tired and then its FP is halved twice, but a 1-FP attack should have a 27.7% (DR=5 for a PTC) to be effective.

In alpha test-2a the same unit does not fire in the German Fire Phase. It could have made a 2-FP attack, with a 41.7% chance (DR=6 for a PTC). I did not fire to see what happened, but otherwise I would have slaughtered any German units fool enough to move in the open in the normal range of my stack (see note below).

In alpha test-2b the unit has moved to 10,29 and still does not fire in the German Advancing Fire segment. Unfortunately for my stack, there are three German stacks in 9,27 / 9,28 (this one was tired) and 11,28 which shot it to pieces.

Is the decision of firing or not based on the probability of getting an effective result from a fire action or simply on the presence of an eligible target within the unit normal range? In other words, a unit with a chance lower than a % threshold won't fire even though it would be perfectly capable of doing so?

NOTE: I usually fire low FP attacks against units moving in the open (a 6-FP with a -2 DRM requires a 10 DR for a PTC, with a 91.7% chance of an effective result). I noticed the leader can use its leadership DRM on all the attacks originating from his hex. Is this correct?

[UP844]

I think something has gone wrong with the defensive DRM of CE AFVs.

Until recently, I used to remain CE unless I was subject to fire by many enemy squads. Even then, I mostly suffered "Stunned" results, while "STUNNED" were quite rare. Since v.1.0.81, however, I noticed CE AFVs have become much more vulnerable: most of them can button up, but using open-topped AFVs like M10's or Marders has become virtually impossible, unless you stay well out of range from MGs and light mortars. Unfortunately, this is not always possible, because LOS is usually set to ranges shorter than HMG/MMG ranges.

I am perfectly aware that most open-topped AFVs were meant to use ambush tactics, not as assault vehicles boldly entering high-threat areas, but lately they have become almost useless.

So, I decided to make use of the Target Combat Advisor to check the effects of infantry fire against OT AFVs.
First, I set up four German squads in open terrain (0 TEM), woods (+1 TEM), wood building (+2 TEM) and stone building (+3 TEM) and placed a Marder III next to them. Then I set up a US infantry squad (6FP, range 6) armed with a MMG (4FP, range 12) six hexes away from the German units.

These were the % of a potentially effective hit against the squads and the Marder.

US Squad
0 TEM = 58.3%
+1 TEM = 50%
+2 TEM = 41.7%
+3 TEM = 33.3%
Marder = 50%

MMG
0 TEM = 50%
+1 TEM = 41.7%
+2 TEM = 33.3%
+3 TEM = 25%
Marder = 41.7%

The CE AFV appears to have a +1 TEM. Shouldn't it be +2?

The test "scenario" is attached here

[Peter Fisla]

UP844, nothing was changed in UPDATE4 that would have affect AFV defense values or crew exposed status.

[UP844]

Perhaps the AI has rolled a series of snake-eyes, then [;)].

Anyway, isn't the CE DRM wrong? I thought it should be +2, not +1.

[Gerry4321]

ORIGINAL: UP844
By the way, I would like to hear some other opinion about AI issues.

You asked ...

When I played the AI would not fire in Defensive Fire Phase. So as you said not an issue of watching out for other movement as all possible movement is over. Wonder if fire is triggered by a % of some kind as you say.

Other thing I noticed was pathing, if that is the right word. AI would sometimes step out into open ground in a city even.

Kudos to Peter for improving the AI.

And I appreciate what you and Rico are doing to help Peter.

Gerry

[UP844]

I finally managed to catch an AI unit failing to fire [;)].

The attached save game was saved in the American Movement segment. Do not move and let the game proceed to the German Defensive Fire Segment.

In hex 7,23 there are a HS armed with a LMG and a D* leader.

In hex 7,25 there are two US squads, two HS (one armed with a MMG, one with a BAZ45) and two leaders. I didn't fire with this stack in the Fire Segment to see what the German HS would do.

The overall fire DRM for the German HS firing its LMG is +1 (+1 woods TEM, +1 brush hindrance, -1 for leadership)

The LMG should have 3 FP: this would require a DR = 6 or less for an effective result, modified to 5 or less. It still translates in a 27.7% chance to inflict some damage, but the German HS doesn't fire [&:].

I cannot say if the HS would have fired in the next German Fire Segment as this was the last turn; in the previous Advanced Fire Segment the HS didn't fire after moving, even though its chances would have been comparable (3 FP halved = 1.5, +1 for assault fire = 2.5, rounded down to 2 FP => DR = 6 or less for an effective hit, modified as above.

[UP844]

Two other cases of AI units failing to fire. I'm sorry, but I have no save game files for these.

Case A:

Under the BAZ45 counter there is an American HS, armed with the bazooka.

I first moved a single squad (magenta arrow), hoping to negate a rout path to the top broken American units. The HS didn't fire.

I then moved a leader and another squad (yellow arrow) to arrive adjacent to the bottom broken American units. The HS didn't fire.

"Victory goes to the bold ones", I thought, so I moved another leader with a squad (red arrow), with the idea of killing the BAZ-armed HS in CC. Guess what? The HS didn't fire.

Finally, I moved still another squad at double time rate (blue arrow) to reinforce the CC vs the BAZ HS or to attack the lone US leader in CC. And, for the fourth time, the HS refused to fire.

The HS could have fired a 6 FP First Fire, with a 0 DRM (-1 FFNAM, +1 woods TEM): an effective result would have required a DR of 8 or less (72.2%). This does not look as a low-chance fire to me.

In the Advancing Fire Segment, I fired on the bottom broken unit, getting a CR. In the CC Segment, I killed both the HS and the lone leader.

Case B:

Under the "Final Fire" marker there are two American HS.
I first assault moved (red arrow) a squad: the HS's fired as First Fire. The fire had no effect but left a Residual Fire
Then I assault moved (yellow arrow) another squad: the HS's fired as Final Fire. The fire had no effect and left no Residual Fire.

So, since this is turn 5 of 6, I took the risk to advance and attempting CC against the two HS. This would be risky, but would also allow me to neutralise the last known American units- A leader and a squad moved adjacent to the HS's and - to my great surprise and pleasure - they didn't fire.

I did some math after surviving my move and - to my horror - I realised that I have been extremely lucky, since a 3FP attack with -2 DRM for FFNAM and FFMO would require a DR of 8 or less (72.2%) for an effective hit, with a less then negligible chance (16.6%) of a K or worse result.

[UP844]

I think I have found a game bug: apparently, infantry units armed with LATW do not fire at infantry (see case A in my previous post).

In the attached scenario there are 6 SS squads (3 armed with a PF, 3 with a PSK) and a single US Elite squad placed 6 hexes away.

You can move the US squad toward the German units and they won't fire neither in the Movement Segment, nor in the Defensive Fire segment. You can also advance adjacent to the GE squads and in the German turn they won't fire at the US squad neither in the Fire Segment, nor in the Advanced Fire segment.
In the second US turn, you can move adjacent along the German line, and no one will be firing at you [&:]. I think this is a issue worth a look.

If this really is a bug, it will explain case A above, but not case B.

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: UP844

I finally managed to catch an AI unit failing to fire [;)].

The attached save game was saved in the American Movement segment. Do not move and let the game proceed to the German Defensive Fire Segment.

In hex 7,23 there are a HS armed with a LMG and a D* leader.

In hex 7,25 there are two US squads, two HS (one armed with a MMG, one with a BAZ45) and two leaders. I didn't fire with this stack in the Fire Segment to see what the German HS would do.

The overall fire DRM for the German HS firing its LMG is +1 (+1 woods TEM, +1 brush hindrance, -1 for leadership)

The LMG should have 3 FP: this would require a DR = 6 or less for an effective result, modified to 5 or less. It still translates in a 27.7% chance to inflict some damage, but the German HS doesn't fire [&:].

I cannot say if the HS would have fired in the next German Fire Segment as this was the last turn; in the previous Advanced Fire Segment the HS didn't fire after moving, even though its chances would have been comparable (3 FP halved = 1.5, +1 for assault fire = 2.5, rounded down to 2 FP => DR = 6 or less for an effective hit, modified as above.

I will take a look...

[UP844]

Thanks, Peter!

Please, also look into the LATW issue I reported in post #48 (with an attached test scenario): if this is actually a bug, it could partially explain the low fire volume from Germans in some scenarios where they are heavily equipped with LATW's (other nationalities have far less LATW's).

By way of example, in scenario "006 - Battle of the Lastekodumägi", the German SS squads armed with LATW do not fire at approaching Russian infantry, not even when they come adjacent to them (a big advantage for the Red Army [:D]).

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: UP844

Thanks, Peter!

Please, also look into the LATW issue I reported in post #48 (with an attached test scenario): if this is actually a bug, it could partially explain the low fire volume from Germans in some scenarios where they are heavily equipped with LATW's (other nationalities have far less LATW's).

By way of example, in scenario "006 - Battle of the Lastekodumägi", the German SS squads armed with LATW do not fire at approaching Russian infantry, not even when they come adjacent to them (a big advantage for the Red Army [:D]).

UP844, I believe I have fixed the issue. When I now load your "no_fire.sav" the squad with panzerchreck will now fire using its inherent firepower. Please see the picture:




Tigers on the Hunt 1.0.92 Alpha is now available here: tm.asp?m=4435081

[UP844]

Thanks Peter, your dedication to the development of ToTH is outstanding! (As well as your patience with bug hunters)

Downloaded 1.0.92, installed and tested: all the German units fired their inherent FP to the US squad: the target broke, then suffered two CR and was eliminated. The AI squads, however, only fired in the Defensive Fire Segment.

Is this simply due to a case of poor AI timing? I have witnessed the AI firing at units moving in the open. In this case, however, it never did, even though it would have had a much better chance to hurt the US squad by firing while it was moving (6 First Fires - and possibly 6 Final fires - with a -2 TEM).

[UP844]

Another confirmation that LATW-armed squads now fire with their inherent FP:

[Peter Fisla]

Ooops, my fault...I made a typo in my code; it should be fixed now (AI personnel units with LATW if they don't have a target for LATW will now fire inherent fire power during player movement segment). I have uploaded an updated build 1.0.93 just now.

[UP844]

Bug fixed! [&o].

The AI fired in the very first hex I moved and the first GE unit firing (the leftmost PSK-armed SS squad) broke the US squad. [&o]

(The test had to be performed in Turn 2 because the US squad was OOC in Turn 1 [:D]).

[UP844]

Can we make a little "progress assessment"?

1) Added native 4K resolution
Appears to have been successfully tested with some issues (see posts #6, #13, #14 by dox44)

2) Added new special command "ATTACK HEX" to AI when AI set is to ADVANCE. This feature allows a unit assigned with this command to attack and defend a specific hex only. This feature will allow the scenario designer a great control over AI units. This feature is currently available in the game to AI when AI is HOLD, the special command is called "DEFEND HEX".
Successfully tested.

3) AI leaders with no additional personnel units in the same hex will now try to move to a hex with broken units or good order units in a hex without a leader. [January 31, 2018]
Succesfully tested - Improves AI overall efficiency by greatly increasing the number of AI broken units rallied and prevents leaders from charging the enemy alone, leaving their broken units behind.

4) Implemented AI Medium and Heavy Machine Guns long range fire, in AI Fire Segment, AI Defensive Fire Segment or AI Defensive Fire during Player's Movement Segment. In addition, only if AI is on HOLD (meaning AI is defending in a scenario) and if an AI personnel unit does not have special ATTACK command.
Succesfully tested - Makes the AI much more challenging, provided maximum visibility is greater than MMG/HMG range and terrain allows fire at such long ranges.

5) AI Pinned personnel are now included in AI firing evaluation processing functionality.
Successfully tested in Movement/Defensive Fire Segment (dedicated test scenario). Not yet properly tested in Advancing Fire Segment

6) AI Personnel units possesing LATW that do not have a valid LATW target will now engage player units using their inherent firepower.
Successfully tested

[UP844]

Just tested the "ATTACK HEX" feature by giving such order to part of a German force. It appears to work fine: they actually moved towards the hex they were told to attack. What are such units supposed to do once they have reached their objective? Do they stay there, or will they move to capture VP hexes?

As I was testing the feature, I noticed another case of an IA unit not firing (this time I have a saved game [;)]).

In hex 14,21 there is an A** leader, a 1st Line squad (armed with a PF) and an Engineer squad (armed with a LMG). In the previous three fire segments, the A** leader and the 1st Line squad fired at the US units in 14,17. The Engineer squad didn't fire it FP (its range is 3 hexes and the US units are 4 hexes away), but it didn't fire its LMG (which is well into its normal range), neither alone nor together the other units in the hex. Usually, GE Engineer squads usually fire their LMGs only when the target is greater than 3.

[Peter Fisla]

Units given special "ATTACK HEX" will move towards that hex and defend that hex...they won't move anywhere else. This AI command is available when AI is on ADVANCE (Attack) mode.

[UP844]

I continued the saved game I attached in my last post, and the units with the "ATTACK" order continued moving towards their target hex. I think this feature is also OK, but I will make some other tests over the next days anyway.