ASW TF

[rustysi]

I'm done. You just can't reach some people. Its OK Hans, believe what you will.[;)]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I'm done. You just can't reach some people. Its OK Hans, believe what you will.[;)]

Perseverance wins every time![:D][8D]

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I'm done. You just can't reach some people. Its OK Hans, believe what you will.[;)]

Perseverance wins every time![:D][8D]

OK, I'm not done. But just here to say.[:D]

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Well you guys can dispute whatever you like, fact is ASW TF's don't 'react'. Hans that message you're seeing is the result of the sub and the ASW TF's paths intersecting. Guys the DEVs have even said that ASW TF's don't 'react'. Why are you still insisting they do?????[&:]

let's see, probably because I'm witnessing it happen.

I learned at a very early age not to believe everything I'm told.

If they can't react, why is it possible to set a reaction range?

If they couldn't react, wouldn't the reaction range choice setting be zero?

Sub and PT TFs have limited reaction range, that can't be set higher than 1.

Wouldn't it have been just as easy to restrict that setting to zero for ASW TFs if they really were not capable of reacting?

I see the same thing Hans - but I don't have the latest patch.
BTW, your logic above is easily dismissed since there are many settings in this game that do nothing because the programmers ran out of time to work on them.

Here is my take on the react thing:
- the ASW TF can react only one hex at a time. To do so requires a very good DL on the sub by some other Allied unit (TF or aircraft).
- having moved to the adjacent hex, finding the sub in 1000 square miles of ocean is only a remote possibility.
- when the sub moves to another hex and again is detected, the DL could be higher because of the previous detection MDL.
- the ASW TF again reacts but still faces a remote chance of finding the sub, especially if the sub is moving to another hex. The cruise speed for a sub and an ASW vessel are similar so catching them is hard.

[Blackhorse]

part of what I love about this sprawling, mysterious game . . .

In response to the straightforward question "Do ASW TFs react?" we learn that the answer is:

1. No (rustysi)
2. Yes (HansBolter)
3. They didn't used to, but since recent patches they do (or might) (Lowpe)
4. They used to, but since recent patches they don't (crsutton)

And these wildly divergent observations and conclusions came from respected AE Legion of Merit forumites, each of whom have been playing the game for years.

. . . and the developing consensus appears to be that ASW TFs don't react, per se, but follow submarines that they found and attacked in the same hex into adjacent hexes.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


part of what I love about this sprawling, mysterious game . . .

In response to the straightforward question "Do ASW TFs react?" we learn that the answer is:

1. No (rustysi)
2. Yes (HansBolter)
3. They didn't used to, but since recent patches they do (or might) (Lowpe)
4. They used to, but since recent patches they don't (crsutton)

And these wildly divergent observations and conclusions came from respected AE Legion of Merit forumites, each of whom have been playing the game for years.

. . . and the developing consensus appears to be that ASW TFs don't react, per se, but follow submarines that they found and attacked in the same hex into adjacent hexes.

Blackhorse,

I'm past giving up responding to these types of threads. On several occasions I have provided links back to Don Bowen posts where he stated without any ambiguity or hesitation that they do not react. As you well know, Don Bowen was the prime coder of the naval routines. I for one will always accept what the coder who did the actual work says 100% of the time over anyone else who lacks access to the code. Plus too much mythical accounts are placed on michaelm altering the game design min his beta work. Michaelm fixed bugs and improved the game interface almost all of which are incorporated in the last official patch. It was not his remit to alter the game design. Nor did he do much work after the last official patch.

Just to provide an inkling of the attention to detail required by the non coders is the fact that there are two different pulses (in both the night and day phases) where reactions can occur:

(a) naval reaction
(b) naval movement

Players who report spotting, at the start of their orders entry stage, that their ASW TF is not on their scheduled patrol hex, never state in which of the two above phases the deviation resulted. This is a rather critical observation missed but what the heck as far as they are concerned they are more correct than Don Bowen.

Alfred

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Well you guys can dispute whatever you like, fact is ASW TF's don't 'react'. Hans that message you're seeing is the result of the sub and the ASW TF's paths intersecting. Guys the DEVs have even said that ASW TF's don't 'react'. Why are you still insisting they do?????[&:]

let's see, probably because I'm witnessing it happen.

I learned at a very early age not to believe everything I'm told.

If they can't react, why is it possible to set a reaction range?

If they couldn't react, wouldn't the reaction range choice setting be zero?

Sub and PT TFs have limited reaction range, that can't be set higher than 1.

Wouldn't it have been just as easy to restrict that setting to zero for ASW TFs if they really were not capable of reacting?

I probably have seen a message saying an ASW TF has reacted I don't remember but it's not been for a long time. TF at sea do attack and probably react but don't know. TF sitting in port do nothing unlees an enemy TF enters.

As far as the ability to be able to set reacction range. Maybe it's broken and been so for a long time, or it was never meant to work and is an over site. I can say no ASW TF has ever to my knowledge reacted more than 1 hex but again how would you know.

[LeeChard]

If you set your TF to patrol a single hex(port) does that save on ship routine damage and fuel consumption?

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: LeeChard

If you set your TF to patrol a single hex(port) does that save on ship routine damage and fuel consumption?

Fuel yes, not sure about damage.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

ORIGINAL: LeeChard

If you set your TF to patrol a single hex(port) does that save on ship routine damage and fuel consumption?

Fuel yes, not sure about damage.

They can still take small amounts of damage in port, but not as much as if they were moving around at sea. If you do any one-hex patrol you accumulate damage very slowly.

And the faster the moving ship (even at cruise speed), the faster the damage accumulates. Just check the two Queens after any cruise - always several points of system damage. And of course Full Speed for any vessel is likely to rack up system damage and engineering damage more quickly than at cruise speed.

[Macclan5]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Another thread that pops up on occasion. I got involved in one a while back, insisting that ASW TF's do 'react', as I believed I had seen it done. Alfred said they didn't. I looked further and tried different things. What I discovered and Alfred more or less confirmed with a [:)] , was that the ASW TF 'reacted' to a sub passing through its hex. ASW TF's in and of themselves do not react. The code is not there for this to occur.

Alfred and Bill have both said that although ASW TFs may react, an attack does not follow necessarily in the same turn.

Although the term 'react' is not quite appropriate here this in fact does often happen. I've seen ASW TF's 'follow' a sub for many hexes without an attack.

This is my experience.

The term 'react' seems to cause much consternation.

React does not equal attack if we need to be explicit.

You get a little flashy screen notification and the ASW TF moves towards the location of the sub or even on top of it.

I have not seen an attack occur in the same turn this happened.

--

Further to my earlier post - I saw the ASW TF follow IJN midget subs into Columbia Celyon for example.

Further on west coast for example I have seen Subchasers follow an IJN sub for a number of hexes.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[US87891]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
part of what I love about this sprawling, mysterious game . . .

In response to the straightforward question "Do ASW TFs react?" we learn that the answer is:

1. No (rustysi)
2. Yes (HansBolter)
3. They didn't used to, but since recent patches they do (or might) (Lowpe)
4. They used to, but since recent patches they don't (crsutton)

And these wildly divergent observations and conclusions came from respected AE Legion of Merit forumites, each of whom have been playing the game for years.

. . . and the developing consensus appears to be that ASW TFs don't react, per se, but follow submarines that they found and attacked in the same hex into adjacent hexes.

Blackhorse,

I'm past giving up responding to these types of threads. On several occasions I have provided links back to Don Bowen posts where he stated without any ambiguity or hesitation that they do not react. As you well know, Don Bowen was the prime coder of the naval routines. I for one will always accept what the coder who did the actual work says 100% of the time over anyone else who lacks access to the code. Plus too much mythical accounts are placed on michaelm altering the game design min his beta work. Michaelm fixed bugs and improved the game interface almost all of which are incorporated in the last official patch. It was not his remit to alter the game design. Nor did he do much work after the last official patch.

Just to provide an inkling of the attention to detail required by the non coders is the fact that there are two different pulses (in both the night and day phases) where reactions can occur:

(a) naval reaction
(b) naval movement

Players who report spotting, at the start of their orders entry stage, that their ASW TF is not on their scheduled patrol hex, never state in which of the two above phases the deviation resulted. This is a rather critical observation missed but what the heck as far as they are concerned they are more correct than Don Bowen.

Alfred

I talked to John and Don and I am looking at the code. I am looking at source for the latest official release. My set includes all updates, from Michaelm through 1125.8. No matter what people know, or think they know, or what they have seen, or think they have seen, or what they might feel, or think they feel;

Do ASW TFs react ???

NO !!!

What Alfred said !!!

[LargeSlowTarget]

Mark it in the calendar, but I agree with Hans here.

With all due respect for Alfred, John, Don, Mat and MichaelM - I tend to believe my own eyes.

Made a quick and dirty test for screenshots.

With reaction range = 0, each ASW TF proceeds to the assigned patrol hex and stays there until further orders or fuel/ammo runs out.

Using the same save game, but with reaction range set to 6, the ASW TFs tend to roam around and rarely stay in their assigned patrol hex.

The only enemy units around are the Japanese subs.

No matter what the code says, I call this roaming around "ASW TF reaction".

Maybe we are not talking about the same thing?

[Chris21wen]

So what's going on here then? Just realized I clipped the bottom off. Reaction range is 4.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[HansBolter]

Thanks guys.

Its nice to get some corroboration that I'm not completely crazy......at least not on this issue. [8D]

and to larrybush, it's especially tough to engage in denial that its a 'reaction' when the flash message states its a reaction.

[Admiral DadMan]

So, what I'm seeing is movement, but no attacks, correct?

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Mark it in the calendar, but I agree with Hans here.

With all due respect for Alfred, John, Don, Mat and MichaelM - I tend to believe my own eyes.

Made a quick and dirty test for screenshots.

With reaction range = 0, each ASW TF proceeds to the assigned patrol hex and stays there until further orders or fuel/ammo runs out.

Using the same save game, but with reaction range set to 6, the ASW TFs tend to roam around and rarely stay in their assigned patrol hex.

The only enemy units around are the Japanese subs.

No matter what the code says, I call this roaming around "ASW TF reaction".

Maybe we are not talking about the same thing?

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]