ASW TF

[LargeSlowTarget]

Here are the combat report of the test with reaction range = 6.

Deeper analysis required to see if the hexes with ASW attacks are ASW patrol hexes or not.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 08, 41
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ASW attack near Lanai at 181,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-170

Allied Ships
DD Conyngham
DD Reid

SS I-170 is located by DD Conyngham
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Lanai at 181,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-170

Allied Ships
DD Hull
DD Ward

SS I-170 is located by DD Hull
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Lanai at 181,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-170

Allied Ships
DD Case
DD Reid

SS I-170 launches 4 torpedoes at DD Case
I-170 diving deep ....
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Reid fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Lanai at 181,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-170

Allied Ships
DD Hull
DD Ward

SS I-170 launches 4 torpedoes at DD Hull
I-170 diving deep ....
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Ward fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Kona at 180,111

Japanese Ships
SS I-170

Allied Ships
DD Bagley
DD Helm

SS I-170 is located by DD Bagley
DD Helm fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Helm fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Helm fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Helm fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Helm fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Kona at 180,111

Japanese Ships
SS I-170

Allied Ships
DD Ellet
DD Farragut

SS I-170 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Ellet
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-170 eludes DD Farragut by diving deep
DD Farragut cannot establish contact with SS I-170
SS I-170 eludes ASW attack from DD Farragut
DD Farragut cannot establish contact with SS I-170
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

[All attacks in same hex against same sub - probably ASW TFs moving through the hex towards their patrol hex]


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 09, 41
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ASW attack near Pearl Harbor at 179,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-172

Allied Ships
DD Farragut

SS I-172 is sighted by escort
I-172 diving deep ....
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Molokai at 180,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-171

Allied Ships
DD Aylwin
DD Dale

SS I-171 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Aylwin
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 10, 41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Molokai at 180,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-171

Allied Ships
DD Dale

SS I-171 launches 4 torpedoes at DD Dale
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Molokai at 180,110

Japanese Ships
SS I-171, hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Balch
DD Farragut

SS I-171 is located by DD Balch
I-171 diving deep ....
DD Farragut attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-171 eludes DD Farragut by diving deep
DD Farragut cannot reach attack position over SS I-171
DD Farragut cannot establish contact with SS I-171
DD Farragut loses contact with SS I-171
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Farragut attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-171 eludes DD Farragut by diving deep
SS I-171 eludes ASW attack from DD Farragut
SS I-171 eludes DD Farragut by diving deep
DD Farragut cannot establish contact with SS I-171
DD Farragut loses contact with SS I-171
DD Farragut fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 178,109

Japanese Ships
SS I-173

Allied Ships
DD Aylwin
DD Dale

SS I-173 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Aylwin
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Dale attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-173 eludes ASW attack from DD Dale
DD Dale cannot establish contact with SS I-173
DD Dale cannot establish contact with SS I-173
DD Dale fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

[rustysi]

So yes the 'reacting to' message is in the game, but doesn't reflect reality, so to speak.

Here's a simple test for those of you who play the AI. Take two identical (as identical as you can WRT leader, experience, etc.) AWS TF's. Look at the 'opponents' screen to find his subs' path's. Set one TF in said path with a single hex patrol. Now do the same for the other ASW TF, but set it one hex outside the subs's patrol zone. In every instance where I've done this the ASW TF 'in the zone' (pun intended) will at some point give you the reaction message and follow the sub. It does not mean it will attack. What I've found is that an attack will occur more often in shallow water hexes, makes sense. Not once have I seen the ASW TF outside the sub's patrol zone react. Oh, and BTW I have both TF's set to a reaction range of 3. I've done this over many turns and still do on occasion.

TBH its kinda become a tactic I now use. When I find pesky subs in an area I send in a couple of ASW TF's one hex apart in the suspected subs' path. When either TF reacts I put the second in that hex for when the sub comes back. Now this probably won't work PBEM (unless your opponent is lazy or not looking), but against the AI that sub will be back, unless of course sunk, heavily damaged, or out of fuel/ammo.

Beyond this I know not what to say.

Edit: I want to be clear here, when I say 'react' I do mean for the quotes to be there, as its more of a 'follow' than a 'react'. This occurs when the ASW and subs' paths' intersect and they are both in the hex.

[rustysi]

but with reaction range set to 6, the ASW TFs tend to roam around and rarely stay in their assigned patrol hex.

I've never seen ASW TF's 'roam', nor move for no reason.

I talked to John and Don and I am looking at the code. I am looking at source for the latest official release.

Do ASW TFs react ???

NO !!!

HELLO!!! Is this thing on.... [&:][:D]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

So yes the 'reacting to' message is in the game, but doesn't reflect reality, so to speak.

Here's a simple test for those of you who play the AI. Take two identical (as identical as you can WRT leader, experience, etc.) AWS TF's. Look at the 'opponents' screen to find his subs' path's. Set one TF in said path with a single hex patrol. Now do the same for the other ASW TF, but set it one hex outside the subs's patrol zone. In every instance where I've done this the ASW TF 'in the zone' (pun intended) will at some point give you the reaction message and follow the sub. It does not mean it will attack. What I've found is that an attack will occur more often in shallow water hexes, makes sense. Not once have I seen the ASW TF outside the sub's patrol zone react. Oh, and BTW I have both TF's set to a reaction range of 3. I've done this over many turns and still do on occasion.

TBH its kinda become a tactic I now use. When I find pesky subs in an area I send in a couple of ASW TF's one hex apart in the suspected subs' path. When either TF reacts I put the second in that hex for when the sub comes back. Now this probably won't work PBEM (unless your opponent is lazy or not looking), but against the AI that sub will be back, unless of course sunk, heavily damaged, or out of fuel/ammo.

Beyond this I know not what to say.

Edit: I want to be clear here, when I say 'react' I do mean for the quotes to be there, as its more of a 'follow' than a 'react'. This occurs when the ASW and subs' paths' intersect and they are both in the hex.

And my position continues to be that you are splitting hairs on defining 'reaction'.

Wherein is it stated that 'reaction' requires or must lead to an attack?

The TF is clearly 'reacting' to the sub as it is moving out of its assigned patrol pattern to the reported location of the sub.

The game engine itself is TELLING US the TF is 'reacting'.

How much more should we need in order be able to believe the TF is indeed 'reacting'?

[rustysi]

The TF is clearly 'reacting' to the sub as it is moving out of its assigned patrol pattern to the reported location of the sub.

The TF is 'intercepting' an enemy, not 'reacting'. The difference that I wish to make is that as stated by the DEVs there's no 'reacting code' in the game WRT ASW TF's. If you're not in the same hex with the sub nothing will happen. As opposed to two CV TF's which will react and move WRT to each other when in range. As opposed to two surface TF's that will react and move WRT to each other when in range. That's not 'splitting hairs' that's stating a difference for a more complete understanding of the game mechanics.

Edit:In addition I have no idea why the ASW TF does what it does, being there's no 'reaction code' in the game. I can only say that after 42 years in the electronics/computer 'game' I have seen many unintended, inexplicable, and unsuspected things occur over that time span. One of the main reasons I don't want my car to do the 'driving' for me. Maybe for some others I've seen on the roads.[:D]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

The TF is clearly 'reacting' to the sub as it is moving out of its assigned patrol pattern to the reported location of the sub.

The TF is 'intercepting' an enemy, not 'reacting'. The difference that I wish to make is that as stated by the DEVs there's no 'reacting code' in the game WRT ASW TF's. If you're not in the same hex with the sub nothing will happen. As opposed to two CV TF's which will react and move WRT to each other when in range. As opposed to two surface TF's that will react and move WRT to each other when in range. That's not 'splitting hairs' that's stating a difference for a more complete understanding of the game mechanics.

Edit:In addition I have no idea why the ASW TF does what it does, being there's no 'reaction code' in the game. I can only say that after 42 years in the electronics/computer 'game' I have seen many unintended, inexplicable, and unsuspected things occur over that time span. One of the main reasons I don't want my car to do the 'driving' for me. Maybe for some others I've seen on the roads.[:D]

OK, so from your perspective the Devs made a HUGE mistake including the flash message "TFXXX Reacting", leading to much confusion on the part of us poor gamers........

Personally, I continue to consider it the reaction that the game labels it.

[rustysi]

OK, so from your perspective the Devs made a HUGE mistake including the flash message "TFXXX Reacting",

Its more of a 'who cares' that it got left in the game. Time tiding up every little thing = less time coding the more important stuff.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

So, what I'm seeing is movement, but no attacks, correct?

Yes. Since I set the ASW TF to patrol Truk all I've seen is movement. Possible there might be attacks.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

OK, so from your perspective the Devs made a HUGE mistake including the flash message "TFXXX Reacting", leading to much confusion on the part of us poor gamers........

Personally, I continue to consider it the reaction that the game labels it.

Never seen(noticed) that message.

Edit:In addition I have no idea why the ASW TF does what it does, being there's no 'reaction code' in the game. I can only say that after 42 years in the electronics/computer 'game' I have seen many unintended, inexplicable, and unsuspected things occur over that time span. One of the main reasons I don't want my car to do the 'driving' for me. Maybe for some others I've seen on the roads.[:D]

As to why the ASW should be doing what it is doing without any code. I think it's alliens they've embedded secret code which is making the game learn ulitmately taking over the computer then the WORLD. (Maniacal laughter). I'll make a film of that.