Why can't Allied ships move into the Med when Gibraltar is Axis held?

[Christolos]

I'm playing a game as the Allies against the Axis AI. It is July 1941 and Spain joined the Axis and took Gibraltar. I'm not sure how that happened given that I am kicking the AI's butt in Libya (screenshot provided)...but it may have been due to diplo pressure (I see that the Axis have spent 600 MPPs to date...whereas I haven't...), in any case Kudos to the AI!

The issue I am now facing is that I cannot move Allied ships into the Med. This is understandable given that the Axis (Spain) now control Gibraltar...but why aren't there any loops (to move in and out) available for the Allies in this situation, as there are for the Axis when Gibraltar is Allied controlled? [&:]


C

[KorutZelva]

there's a loop to get you to the red sea

scan for arrows at the bottom of the map of the african coast in the atlantic

[Christolos]

Hi KorutZelva,

Yes, I am aware of that loop...I'm just wondering if that being the only way into the Med, under this circumstance, is realistic. [&:]

C

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: Christolos

Hi KorutZelva,

Yes, I am aware of that loop...I'm just wondering if that being the only way into the Med, under this circumstance, is realistic. [&:]

C

Good Point

It seems that the Axis gateway to Mediterranean/Atlantic around Gibraltar should switch to Allied access. No logic that Axis have it when Allies control Gibraltar and the Allies dont when Axis control.

[BillRunacre]

Hi

The reason is that Germans had a string of posts either side of the strait and also beneath it during the war, to enable them to spot Allied shipping through the Strait, and this would only have been increased had they actually taken Gibraltar. The chances of Allied ships having been able to use the strait in those circumstances would have been minimal.

From Paul Preston's Franco:

'In early 1942... the Abwehr was constructing, with the aid of the Spanish navy, a seabed sonic detection across the Straits of Gibraltar and a chain of fourteen infra-red ship surveillance stations along the routes which would be used by the convoys for the projected Allied landings in North Africa (Operation Torch). With nine stations on the Spanish coast and a further five in Morocco, the system became fully operational on 15 April 1942'.

Bill

[Christolos]

Many thanks Bill!

That makes sense.

C

[xwormwood]

But I guess this would be a great Decision Event for the Allied side if the Axis took Gibraltar.
The UK was able to read most of the german enigma messages, so it is possible that they might have found a way to at least attack some of the Axis installations, or at least they might have found a way to temporarily disable them.

[James Taylor]

Used to be if you could reduce Gibraltar supply to 0, then any unit Axis or Allied could traverse the strait.

Not sure if that still applies as there are now 2 ports also.

[sPzAbt653]

Yes, it still works that way. [:)]

[James Taylor]

So do you have to reduce the two ports as well as Gibraltar to supply 0 or just Gibraltar?

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Hi

The reason is that Germans had a string of posts either side of the strait and also beneath it during the war, to enable them to spot Allied shipping through the Strait, and this would only have been increased had they actually taken Gibraltar. The chances of Allied ships having been able to use the strait in those circumstances would have been minimal.

From Paul Preston's Franco:

'In early 1942... the Abwehr was constructing, with the aid of the Spanish navy, a seabed sonic detection across the Straits of Gibraltar and a chain of fourteen infra-red ship surveillance stations along the routes which would be used by the convoys for the projected Allied landings in North Africa (Operation Torch). With nine stations on the Spanish coast and a further five in Morocco, the system became fully operational on 15 April 1942'.

Bill

Seems more like a fog of war issue than a hard interdiction to cross. If that's the concern make it a DE lifting FOW near gibraltar... but they would still need a maritime bomber or the Italian fleet for actual deterrence.

[Christolos]

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

So do you have to reduce the two ports as well as Gibraltar to supply 0 or just Gibraltar?

+1

C

[sPzAbt653]

Friendly naval units can move thru an enemy port if it is at '0'. The nearby land hexes have no effect.

[Hairog]

Good to know...